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Discussion Starter #1
I Disected K&N, Perf-form and HD 10 micron filters, see attached pictures.
A couple of things I observed:

1. The HD filter has the smallest amount of filter media.
2. The K&N has a rubber relief valve where the HD has a fiber one (which would seem to me it might leak). Not sure yet about Perf-form it is totally different design.
3. The HD has the least amount of threads for the screw on base.
4. The HD has the most pliable anti drain back rubber(feels like silicone).
5. The K&N has a well formed spring that seals the element to the drain back rubber, the others look nasty at best. I don't think this is a big deal though as they all had pressure on the elements when cut apart.
6. Filter sealing rubber gaskets all are same size and shape. HD crimps thiers in the others are just snug fits.
 

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Great info Gomer....thanks for all that work on the filters. Very interesting.

Just for the sake of interesting stuff about filtration everybody. Keep in mind that:

-There are 25,400 microns in one inch.

Common Items and their respective particle sizes:
-Eye of a Needle: 1,230 microns
-Human Hair: 40 to 300 microns
-Oil Smoke: 0.03 to 1 micron
-Tobacco Smoke: 0.01 to 1 microns
-Beach Sand: 100 to 2000 microns
-Pollens: 10 to 1000 microns
-Typical Atmospheric Dust: 0.001 to 30 microns
-Mold Spores: 10 to 30 microns

The 10 micron filtration of the HD filter, and I assume the others also, is such that they catch 100 percent of all particles 10 microns and larger...and a VERY high percentage of those particles that are smaller than 10 microns. This is the definition of a 10 micron "absolute" rating of a filter element.

So...take a human hair and cut it in a cross section...then cut that in 4 pieces of pie...and you have a 10 micron particle. I'm just rambling here but some folks may have not known just how efficient these little paper filters are at catching particulate matter. I was a helicopter hydraulicsman (bubblechaser) many years ago and contamination was a very serious matter to all....and interesting stuff too. :wacko:

Semper Fi,
Steve...Pensacola
USMC 1972 - 2003
-
 

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I agree with Steveusmc. Any and all of these filters will do an adequate job filtering most of the particulate matter that moves through the oil system. The main thing is stop anything with a part number on it. Most of the small matter that I see in the filters doesn't concern me too much. I do cut my filters open about every other oil change just to have a look-see.

I overhaul aircraft fuel pumps and fuel controls and we see huge fuel flows. The filters coming off of commercial jets after 15,000 hours of operation have filters that I would use in my bike. They are mostly 10 micron and pick up algae, tank sludge and whatever else floats through the aircraft fuel systems. The fuel passes through orifices as small as 0.015 inches and rarely do we see any clogged orifices.

Therefore, I feel confident that any filtration you use in a HD oil system will provide reasonable protection and keep your motor safe.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Guys,
Great info
Just thought I would share what I had seen as some others may not have had the opportunity.:thumbsup:
 

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I am told Amsoil will be coming out this coming April with a motorcycle oil filter to complement the NEW oil filters that they just came out with! I guess from what they are saying, it will be a filter to be beat! But that it will take a while due to patends and stuff!:gun:
 

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steveusmc said:
Great info Gomer....thanks for all that work on the filters. Very interesting.

Just for the sake of interesting stuff about filtration everybody. Keep in mind that:

-There are 25,400 microns in one inch.

Common Items and their respective particle sizes:
-Eye of a Needle: 1,230 microns
-Human Hair: 40 to 300 microns
-Oil Smoke: 0.03 to 1 micron
-Tobacco Smoke: 0.01 to 1 microns
-Beach Sand: 100 to 2000 microns
-Pollens: 10 to 1000 microns
-Typical Atmospheric Dust: 0.001 to 30 microns
-Mold Spores: 10 to 30 microns

The 10 micron filtration of the HD filter, and I assume the others also, is such that they catch 100 percent of all particles 10 microns and larger...and a VERY high percentage of those particles that are smaller than 10 microns. This is the definition of a 10 micron "absolute" rating of a filter element.

So...take a human hair and cut it in a cross section...then cut that in 4 pieces of pie...and you have a 10 micron particle. I'm just rambling here but some folks may have not known just how efficient these little paper filters are at catching particulate matter. I was a helicopter hydraulicsman (bubblechaser) many years ago and contamination was a very serious matter to all....and interesting stuff too. :wacko:

Semper Fi,
Steve...Pensacola
USMC 1972 - 2003
-
Steve,
I like your explanations of size, but to correct your statement about the 10 micron harley filter: it is 10 micron at a nominal value rating. This means that only 50% of 10 micron sized contaminants are being caught. I have seen all sorts of filter comparisons over the years and the guys cutting these filters apart grade the thickness of the filter medium with the naked eye, which in my case I can only see down to 40 microns or so. When the material is synthetic fibers like the harley filter you need to use a microscope to see how these are different than the common cellouse paper medium. There is no comparison between the two different technologies. The only way they can be truly compared is on a flow bench. There is SAE test developed for this and they don't use the naked eye. Now as far as contruction goes the naked eye can tell you something.

There is some new oil filter technology that is just now hitting the market for automotive and truck use and this is nanofiber technology https://www.amsoil.com/products/ea_filters/EaO.aspx Amsoil will be using this same technology in their motorcycle filters early next year.
 

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george douglas said:
Steve,
I like your explanations of size, but to correct your statement about the 10 micron harley filter: it is 10 micron at a nominal value rating. This means that only 50% of 10 micron sized contaminants are being caught. I have seen all sorts of filter comparisons over the years and the guys cutting these filters apart grade the thickness of the filter medium with the naked eye, which in my case I can only see down to 40 microns or so. When the material is synthetic fibers like the harley filter you need to use a microscope to see how these are different than the common cellouse paper medium. There is no comparison between the two different technologies. The only way they can be truly compared is on a flow bench. There is SAE test developed for this and they don't use the naked eye. Now as far as contruction goes the naked eye can tell you something.

There is some new oil filter technology that is just now hitting the market for automotive and truck use and this is nanofiber technology https://www.amsoil.com/products/ea_filters/EaO.aspx Amsoil will be using this same technology in their motorcycle filters early next year.
That new filter is impressive, 25,000 mile life.
 

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10-4 on the "nominal" rating George. Speaking of the newer, higher efficiency filter elements, I would think I need to stick with the stock HD filter for my 1995 Evo motor due to the lower output of the pump compared to today's TC motors. I believe the EVO filters were 30 micron as opposed to the new 10 micron, which also have higher spring tension for the oil pressure to overcome.

Any comments would be highly appreciated George....or anyone in the know about the EVO oil pressure issues.

Semper Fi,
Steve....Pensacola
USMC 1972 - 2003
 

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steveusmc said:
10-4 on the "nominal" rating George. Speaking of the newer, higher efficiency filter elements, I would think I need to stick with the stock HD filter for my 1995 Evo motor due to the lower output of the pump compared to today's TC motors. I believe the EVO filters were 30 micron as opposed to the new 10 micron, which also have higher spring tension for the oil pressure to overcome.

Any comments would be highly appreciated George....or anyone in the know about the EVO oil pressure issues.

Semper Fi,
Steve....Pensacola
USMC 1972 - 2003
Steve,
There seems to be some oil flow issues with the EVO engine's oil system and when using too good of a filter it might slow some scavenge oil flow back to the tank. Oil being sucked from the oil pump to the engine doesn't go through the oil filter first as it does with a TC engine. Oil is only filtered on it's return trip to the oil tank. If my understanding is correct then a lot of the so called issues with oil filters is really not an issue. May be I am wrong.
 

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New Harley Oil Filter

From another thread.

Apparently the new filter for TC88 engines now works with the EVO as well. It also filters down to 5 microns. It seems HD has redesigned the flow characteristics so that it works with both EVO and TC88 engines.

Old number was 63798-99, the new number is 63798-99A.

The 63798-99 will no longer be available when supplies are exhausted.



http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=669280&posted=1#post669280


****************************************************
Product Description:

Chrome. Fits all '99-later Twin Cam and Evolution® 1340-equipped models and available as an upgrade for any motorcycle currently using P/N 63796-77A or 63805-80A. Made in the U.S.A.

Product ID: 63798-99A

****************************************************
 

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Any of you heard of or used HiFloFiltro brand filters?
 

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steveusmc said:
...The 10 micron filtration of the HD filter, and I assume the others also, is such that they catch 100 percent of all particles 10 microns and larger...and a VERY high percentage of those particles that are smaller than 10 microns.
george douglas said:
...This means that only 50% of 10 micron sized contaminants are being caught.
but you both overlook the bypass oil. at speed, as the pressure builds, the bypass valve in the filter will open. 0% of bypassed oil will be filtered...so 0% of those contaminants will be captured 8(
 

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gdkenoyer said:
but you both overlook the bypass oil. at speed, as the pressure builds, the bypass valve in the filter will open. 0% of bypassed oil will be filtered...so 0% of those contaminants will be captured 8(
GD, We weren't discussing the PSID of filters in the conversation, but since you brought it up I believe that HD and Amsoil's internal by-pass valve settings are in the 8 to 12 PSID range. Your statement about unfiltered oil only applies to a thick cold oil, or a highly contaminated oil filter, or a cheap oil filter that doesn't have the proper PSID setting for it's application.

Keep in mind that a by-pass valve is designed to open when the differential pressure going through the medium rises to the predetermined PSID setting. Some people think that when the typical oil pressure rises to that level then you are in by-pass. I am sure you understand this, but you would be surpised how many mechanics don't understand PSID.
 

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Same as an aircraft filter basically. The filter housings have a PSID indicator button called a "Delta-P" (Differential Pressure...between inlet and outlet). When there was a certain PSID, the red DeltaP button would pop up letting you know that you need to check your elements...maybe. It could also be popped because of cold or because of a surge and then you would check it while creating a constant flow through the element such as motoring an engine with the gydraulic starter. Regardless, the button would pop before the assembly actually went into the bypass mode. Bottom line is that it is always better to have some unfiltered oil, or hydraulic fluid, than it is to have no flow. I didn't think that made complete sense that just because pressure rose, the HD filter would go into bypass. Thanks George.

Semper Fi,
Steve...Pensacola
USMC 1972 - 2003
 

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steveusmc said:
Same as an aircraft filter basically. The filter housings have a PSID indicator button called a "Delta-P" (Differential Pressure...between inlet and outlet). When there was a certain PSID, the red DeltaP button would pop up letting you know that you need to check your elements...maybe. It could also be popped because of cold or because of a surge and then you would check it while creating a constant flow through the element such as motoring an engine with the gydraulic starter. Regardless, the button would pop before the assembly actually went into the bypass mode. Bottom line is that it is always better to have some unfiltered oil, or hydraulic fluid, than it is to have no flow. I didn't think that made complete sense that just because pressure rose, the HD filter would go into bypass. Thanks George.

Semper Fi,
Steve...Pensacola
USMC 1972 - 2003
Steve,
You bring back memories about those hydraulic filter buttons. I changed many filters through the years based on those buttons popping. Very seldom were they accurate though. On the other hand though the engine oil filter by-pass warning lights on the jets were pretty accurate. I spent 4 years as a jet engine mechanic in the USAF and then the next 30 years as an aircraft mechanic for delta airlines before I took early retirement nearly 5 years ago.
 

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SEDELUXE05 said:
George when will the new filters be out and what colors do they have chrome,black,red
some diffrent colors would be nice to accent the motor:thumbsup:
put me down for 2 when they come out
They should be out within a couple of months. I assume that they will just come in black or chrome.
 

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george douglas said:
GD, We weren't discussing the PSID of filters in the conversation ... Your statement about unfiltered oil only applies to a thick cold oil, or a highly contaminated oil filter, or a cheap oil filter that doesn't have the proper PSID setting for it's application.
...or an non-cheap filter that is for a different application.

Good point and one that is not necessarily obvious, or even quick to be understood. Thank you for the clarification. There is a great deal of discussion on this over in Bob is the Oil Guy Oil Filter forum .

For those who have not been following: most filters contain a pressure valve to prevent rupture of the filter material; in the case of these HD filters this valve opens when the differential pressure exceeds 8 to 12 psi; any oil passing thru the bypass is not filtered.
 

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gdkenoyer said:
...or an non-cheap filter that is for a different application.

Good point and one that is not necessarily obvious, or even quick to be understood. Thank you for the clarification. There is a great deal of discussion on this over in Bob is the Oil Guy Oil Filter forum .

For those who have not been following: most filters contain a pressure valve to prevent rupture of the filter material; in the case of these HD filters this valve opens when the differential pressure exceeds 8 to 12 psi; any oil passing thru the bypass is not filtered.
Wow these guys over on that forum have way to much time on their hands. They have established that the oil filter has a pressure drop. As long as it doesn't exceed the PSID then the bypass valve never opens. Oil flow will see pressure drops at each bearing as it is forced through clearances after it leaves the oil filter. I give them credit though for trying to prove things to themselves. I remember when I was a youngster I did similiar things as I tried to prove to myself what made things tick on Aircraft and engines.
 
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