V-Twin Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anyone know about 16mm motion filming? I need help with understanding lighting, lens, f stop, film types and film speeds for 16mm motion film. Let me know if you think you can help the helpless :dunno:
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
DJW said:
Springer, if it's good porno you owe me a print. ;)

http://www.indietalk.com/ (I hope the google ads don't bother you) :)

Thanks ... it looks like they already know what they are doing over there. I don't have clue.

Not a porno, got a digital camera for that :roflback:

No google ads for me, fixed that the first day.
 

·
I haven't seen your bird.
Joined
·
8,499 Posts
If it were 35mm film photography you were inquiring about, I might have been able to offer some insights (I don't know squat about motion picture photography). I shot with 35mm Nikon film cameras for years, though I'm now a confirmed digital photo kind of guy. No way will I ever buy film again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
16mm normally runs at 18 or 24 fps (frames per second) and high speed filming for fast action can be 32, 48 and even 64fps. Of course, the slower speed is ok for people talking or dancing. 24fps would be better for a sporting event or moving vehicles, like a motorcycle.

f-stop and lighting will work like still photography. The less light, the lower the f-stop will need to be to get good exposure and a higher f-stop gives you a greater depth of field.

Can't help on the film types or speeds. I'm sure a higher speed needs less light and would be grainier.

Hope that's not too basic.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I have been learning a lot about it but I am still in the dark on some stuff. I will be filming at 1000fps. it has been recommended to film at 100 speed film and use LOTS of light. I still have lots of research to do before I load my first roll of film. A 100ft roll at 1000fps is about 4 seconds worth of film.
 

·
Twist it, pop it, burn it
Joined
·
161 Posts
springer- said:
I have been learning a lot about it but I am still in the dark on some stuff. I will be filming at 1000fps. it has been recommended to film at 100 speed film and use LOTS of light. I still have lots of research to do before I load my first roll of film. A 100ft roll at 1000fps is about 4 seconds worth of film.

springer, what is it you are trying to do with the high speed film.. at that speed you could track a bullet, go in a combustion chamber etc.
In any event a 100 speed film is not that light sensitive and is a "slower" film but fine and not very grainy for a sharper image but the trade-off is more light is needed and a wider aperture or lower f stop number. Perhaps some more info on what your doing would help a little. Do you have specific questions?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Scope of the project:
High speed 16mm film of specific parts in a running engine at different RPM's. Then digitizing said film and creating slow motion video for a website.

Specifics:
I want to film valves, pushrods, cam timing, lifters and cam chain tensioners in a late model Harley twin cam engine for the purpose of comparing different types of parts. For example, adjustable pushrods vs 1 piece pushrods.

Equipment:
Hycam II 10fps-11,000 fps, No lens yet. Looking for a Honeywell Pentax spot meter. Don't know what I will need for lighting. Don't know what type of film to use either. I'm thinking B/W
 

·
Obsolete Rider
Joined
·
1,728 Posts
I've never tried to film high speed stuff in motion but we used to do a lot
of "freezing" moving parts with a strobe light so we could see what was going
on with equipment.
Strobes are very bright and should work for film.
The only issue might be synchronizing the strobe and flim speed.

My input on film type is that B/W would be cheaper than color although with
digital so popular now, any film developing may be pricey.

Oh yeah, a word of warning. When freezing motion with a strobe, make sure
no "helpers" forget and try to stick their hands on moving parts. :nono:
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
geoffreyt said:
Gee, Im just thinking, 100 FPS is equal to one frame per up/down movement at 6000 RPMs. That should provide tons of detail.
If that were the case, and the frame was taken at the time in which it was at the center of the field of movement, then each additional frame would also be taken at the center of the field of movement. This would give a result of the subject being film as looking like it was not moving at all. 10 times as many frames would give a series of frames showing the complete travel and movement during travel, that would be 1000fps.

But that isn't the case, the pushrods for example move at 1/2 the speed of the crank, so they would be moving 3000 times per minute. At 100 fps, that only equals 2 frames per movement. At 1000 fps it equals 20 frames per movement. That may not be enough to show a smooth video. I am considering 2000 fps as well.

All assuming my math is correct.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,329 Posts
springer- said:
If that were the case, and the frame was taken at the time in which it was at the center of the field of movement, then each additional frame would also be taken at the center of the field of movement. This would give a result of the subject being film as looking like it was not moving at all. 10 times as many frames would give a series of frames showing the complete travel and movement during travel, that would be 1000fps.

But that isn't the case, the pushrods for example move at 1/2 the speed of the crank, so they would be moving 3000 times per minute. At 100 fps, that only equals 2 frames per movement. At 1000 fps it equals 20 frames per movement. That may not be enough to show a smooth video. I am considering 2000 fps as well.

All assuming my math is correct.
But for some one to see 3000 movements per minute you will have to slow the film down. Down to where? The higher FPS will capture detail, but how much detail is critical?
I see your undertaking is no cheap proposition. Id have to hire someone to come and film. It looks very high tech as well as expensive to produce it yourself.
http://www.firsttenangstroms.com/faq/TheTruthAboutHighEndCameras.html
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Only the capture happens at that rate of speed. The playback will be at a significantly reduced rate. It is the same technology that allows one to see a bullet when it hits a target. The frames per second while filming the bullet is over 1000 while the play back may only be 30, this is what gives it the slow motion effect.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
geoffreyt said:
I see your undertaking is no cheap proposition. Id have to hire someone to come and film. It looks very high tech as well as expensive to produce it yourself.
http://www.firsttenangstroms.com/faq/TheTruthAboutHighEndCameras.html
Both links are a good read, thanks. As explained in my last post, the slow motion effect is what I am going for so 1000fps I expect to be the slowest I will be filming at.

Cost is definately a factor and I am on a shoestring budget. To rent a camera for the day is anywhere between $200-$500. As mentioned in the link provided, purchasing a digital camera for $50,000-$100,000 is out of the question.

I already have a camera capable of in excess of 10,000fps. And with eBay, I am purchasing the accessories required to start filming. Now all I need is the knowhow. I expect in a few weeks I will have my first recording at 1000fps.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top