V-Twin Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
469 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Im using Gear drive with C M 600 G cams .600 lift It seems that all other rockers have bushings at the shaft with the exception of Crane which has needle bearings at the shaft . Would they be a better mouse trap ,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,460 Posts
I used to absoluteley believe in pin roller rockers until I read a recent report about the limited travel of the pins causing undue wear at the pin rubbing points and that they were not so efficient after a period of time............granted that this would be quite a few thousand miles, but I just wonder which style would wear sooner..........bushing or roller?

Anyway which ever you get.....................you should be using them over .550 lift..................my personal opinion is that for limited bike use you can get away with standard rockers..............

Another area that is open to debate......................does the aggressive ramp rates on the cam lobes cause accelerated valve guide wear or does the higher lift cause this...............of course its both but which is worse?

All the best, Ozzie
 

·
Arse Hole and Good at it
Joined
·
356 Posts
I was looking at the same thing for my build coming up. I theory the needle bearing should be beter, less wear and less friction. Which should result in better performance and faster revs, in turn should product a little extra hp and torque, but my theory is with mustangs not bike, but I think the concept is one in the same, right?:hmmm: I may be way off. Still reseaching my build and looking for the answer on the crane rockers myself. Good luck.

Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,460 Posts
Hello 06 Nightrain,

Yes I believe pin roller rockers will be more efficient than bushed rollers but you really got to look at the facts...........................how fast will you ride and how often....................bushed rockers have been handling some very good tq/hp engines without failure for quite some time and the extra you pay for pin roller styles has to be weighed up as to the advantage...........you would get more noticeable performance out of going from adjustable pushrods to 1 piece than you would over new pin rollers and bushed rollers..........and even that would only be perceptable to high level racing guys.........on the street..........well.

Basically, if you can afford it, go for it......................on the other side HDWrench sells quality forged rockers at the right price and I will get a set from him when I get to my build.

All the best, Ozzie

All the best, Ozzie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
487 Posts
I have used both styles I prefer the bushing models you are spreading the load over a Wider area of the shaft ok lets look at the psi on bearing surface say 200 lbs per square inch spring pressure multiply times 4 figuring for a 1/2x1/2 contact patch load surface now lets look at needles 3-4 needles max at points only 2 needles with the load contacting bearing surface {at loadpoint} with a .050 needle dia what maby .001-.003 contact surface 1/2 inch long so .003 x .500 =.0015 of a square inch of bearing surface i have seen the shafts fail burn through the hard pop out of material on one race engine went through 5 sets of shafts and rockers in 1 season with the needles and with bushings 2-3 seasons 1 set of the bushing models altho we had been running 340# seat pressure with 1000# over the nose in 10K short stroke evo
 

·
Arse Hole and Good at it
Joined
·
356 Posts
Thank guys, point well taken. Like I was saying my theory was on my stroker mustang. Ive been running the roller rockers in it for quit some time with no problems, and I abuse the sh*t out of it. I havent seen the needle bearing in the rockers for hogs, I didnt think there could be to many of them in that small of a space. As far as push rod go, Im going to try JIMS titanium adjustable. Says they weigh same as aluminum "67grams", but as strong as chrome moly. Looking at running the wood TW-9G cam. I want to see how big of a numbers I can get out of a 95" motor. Thanks again for the inputs.

Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,460 Posts
Nice cam that W9B...........................Just my opinion but apart from Rollers which should be use with that lift..............going to 3.37 gears would get that cam to really come on and a bigger T/Body like the Horsepower Inc. numbers......say 51mm. matched to your port diameter.

Heads................Dewey or Bad Boyz and they will tell you what to set them at for that cam and the type of pipes you intend to run.

All the best, Ozzie
 

·
Arse Hole and Good at it
Joined
·
356 Posts
I just emailed Dewey my parts list to see if he could give me some feed back. The head will differently be going to Dewey to work his magic. Im still looking it to the custom pipes I drawed up. Ozzie did you get to take a look at it? I was thinking of cutting up my pipe I have now, sence all the right bends are in it and adding my X pipe to them " V&H big shot staggered, or maybe email V&H with the drawing and let them take a look and see what they say. If I can swing a new TB "51-54mm" and injectors, I will send the intake and TB to Dewey with the head to have everything ported to match. :thumbsup: My wife is going to kill me when I get this started after the first of the yr.:flames: She thinks I should be happy with just having a bike, WRONG.:roflback: :boxin:

Tim
 

·
Arse Hole and Good at it
Joined
·
356 Posts
I almost for got, I going to re-gear the bike but still havent got that narrowed down yet either, 3.37, 3.48, 3.60or 3.72 maybe adding 6 speed gear to trans case.

Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,460 Posts
Just an opinion as ultimately you will have to decide for your self............

If you are building a bar hopper and dont intend to travel any distance then lower gears will kill everything around you.

If you like to go on trips then 3.37 is pretty good for all round performance.

What gets lost here a bit, again in my opinion..........is that bikes like the Softail Standard FXR etc. can do quite well with the torque cams like the TW5 or 6H without the need to go to 3.37.

The Road Kings on up would do to have 3.37 and the torque cams to get them moving.

I tried to respond to your pipe idea but dropped out and gave up...as we get sh!tty connections over here quite often.....................the design looks great and would sell for sure.......................what has to happen is that you need to test it with a number of cam/head combos and work out correct distances from the head to the intersection and then after lengths........50" all up seems to work on my computer quite well, but pipes like 2:1`s etc. always get dips in the curve that I can not take out using this software, that obviously can be in the real world, and 1 company is stating on their website that 12 degrees is what the angle should be when the pipe leaves the horizontal and turns down to meet the lower pipe and visa versa.

Then patent it, sell it with baffles and let the rider be able to take them out and then when you make your first million.........remember me!! ha!!

All the best, Ozzie
 

·
Doing time, behind bars!
Joined
·
1,480 Posts
Ozzie In Arabia said:
Then patent it, sell it with baffles and let the rider be able to take them out and then when you make your first million.........remember me!! ha!!
All the best, Ozzie
You want the job as head of CUSTOMER SUPPORT :hystria: right? :dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,460 Posts
The_Snowman said:
You want the job as head of CUSTOMER SUPPORT :hystria: right? :dunno:
Yes, it will only take a week... (just after reading the shipment schedule of 8 weeks)
Yes, I give full refund........( less our cost of 15% for our fugg up, but you have to pay shipping - written in fine print)
Yes, you have to go elsewhere to learn how to wire up our products....(we just make em...we dont know how they work!)
Yes, it is our product but no we dont want to help you.. go back to your supplier

Yep, I am totally versed in what to say if I were to get a job at:
Wally`s WaNkers
Performance Machine
BDL/WIREPLUS

All the best, Ozzie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,589 Posts
06 Night train,

Need bigger TB if you are looking to get max numbers. But Dakota Kid can modify stock TB to increase low to mid (and a little upper, too) for less cash. Although with that cam (which is a bit large for a 95") you will hold back top end HP even with the modified stocker. Unfortunately, with the 06's they once again have shrunk the injector flow and increased the pulse width, so you may need to go larger with those, too.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top