I think H-D does have some kind of rating system. According to www.hawgeye.com, H-D assigns colored shields to dealerships based on customer response(that's what H-D says.BJG said:
My Personal Take on The MOCO
21 - 32 of 32 Posts
I am fairly new to the Harley scene. I saw my first Harley in 1990 and knew deep down it was in my blood to own one. Was under the impression that Harley's were $30-40K, don't know why I thought that. About a year and half ago my older brother bought a 2001 FatBoy FI. This is when I really started to get into H-D's and found out what they really cost. The best single thing that I like about H-D is the legacy they have. Show me another motorcycle company that has been around for 100 years. When you are riding a Harley you are riding a big piece of American History. To me, when you throw your leg over and fire up them horses, you become a part of that legacy. I certainly hope that H-D is around in 5-10 years, or for that matter another 100 years, I want to be able to share this legacy with my kids. For a company to be around for 100 years it has got to be doing something right and if problems are there hopefully they will see them and correct them, in time.
Like I said I am new to Harley's, but what I have noticed is they know what kind of a product they have and what they can do with it. I hope they just don't hurt their customers like they may have done in the past.
It seems to me, from what I have noticed talking to other Harley owners and reading posts from this site, owning a Harley is more than owning a bike. It is in our blood. It is a piece of you, a piece of America and a piece of freedom. Someone else said in another post, People are generally riding Harley's or want to ride one. I think this is very true.
I do hope that H-D reallizes there are problems and fixes them quickly. Wheather that be the dealership problems or whatever they are.
The dealership I have been working with has been great, I haven't bought my bike yet, but getting to that point they have been very helpful. My brother bought from the same dealership and has had no complaints.
I went into Dillards about 5-6 years ago and was looking at buying some shoes. The shoe clerk was very unhelpful towards me, upset me so bad about it that I have not been back into Dillards since nor do I intend to ever go back. My point here is that one small person in a huge corporation can make a difference. Such could be the case with Harley-Davidson. One dealer could be bad and thus have a very negative impact towards the entire H-D corporation. This could be why H-D has not done anything about it. Now if 90% of their dealers where providing horrible service then I would sincerely hope that Harley-Davidson would be frantically doing something about that.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread and have been educated in things I didn't know anything about. I appreciate all of the input on this thread.
I do hope Harley can fix the problems they may have, although I have not seen them. And I hope they can always remain true to the customer instead of the almight dollar.
Like I said I am new to Harley's, but what I have noticed is they know what kind of a product they have and what they can do with it. I hope they just don't hurt their customers like they may have done in the past.
It seems to me, from what I have noticed talking to other Harley owners and reading posts from this site, owning a Harley is more than owning a bike. It is in our blood. It is a piece of you, a piece of America and a piece of freedom. Someone else said in another post, People are generally riding Harley's or want to ride one. I think this is very true.
I do hope that H-D reallizes there are problems and fixes them quickly. Wheather that be the dealership problems or whatever they are.
The dealership I have been working with has been great, I haven't bought my bike yet, but getting to that point they have been very helpful. My brother bought from the same dealership and has had no complaints.
I went into Dillards about 5-6 years ago and was looking at buying some shoes. The shoe clerk was very unhelpful towards me, upset me so bad about it that I have not been back into Dillards since nor do I intend to ever go back. My point here is that one small person in a huge corporation can make a difference. Such could be the case with Harley-Davidson. One dealer could be bad and thus have a very negative impact towards the entire H-D corporation. This could be why H-D has not done anything about it. Now if 90% of their dealers where providing horrible service then I would sincerely hope that Harley-Davidson would be frantically doing something about that.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread and have been educated in things I didn't know anything about. I appreciate all of the input on this thread.
I do hope Harley can fix the problems they may have, although I have not seen them. And I hope they can always remain true to the customer instead of the almight dollar.
Unome, thanks for the post. I had forgotten about the AMF years and the tariff's when I wrote that. My line of thinking was they have survived. Yes they couldn't have done it without Government help but they still survived.
I am sorry to hear that a lot of you are feeling like the Native Americans dealing with the white man. I hope I don't go down that same path. Seems like once a corporation gets really big they forget that they were once small and forget to take care of the people that got them big. Then what happens? Look at IBM. Huge corporation, got cauky and almost folded up. I don't care how big a corporation is if they don't take care of their customers they can go belly up. I hope Harley understands this.
It would be a big disappointment to see Harley go under.
Is there someone we can call or send emails to, to let them know of our disappointments with the dealer or the company in general? Maybe there is something that can be done???
I am sorry to hear that a lot of you are feeling like the Native Americans dealing with the white man. I hope I don't go down that same path. Seems like once a corporation gets really big they forget that they were once small and forget to take care of the people that got them big. Then what happens? Look at IBM. Huge corporation, got cauky and almost folded up. I don't care how big a corporation is if they don't take care of their customers they can go belly up. I hope Harley understands this.
It would be a big disappointment to see Harley go under.
Is there someone we can call or send emails to, to let them know of our disappointments with the dealer or the company in general? Maybe there is something that can be done???
Motor Company thoughts...
Harley has almost doubled its unit production in the last four or five years - something I doubt many other companies could do without letting quality fall in the toilet. I guess you could be cynical and say that this is their way of customer service, but it does at least show that they are willing to make the investment to try to keep pace with demand. An investment in a factory takes years to amortize - who is to say if there will be quite the same demand for bikes five years from now?
Overall I've been very pleased with my Harley. The design, engineering, and overall quality of the bike has been everything I could ask for. I felt I was fairly treated by my dealer, and (I guess I was lucky) I didn't have to wait for my bike. I just got my dealer satisfaction survey in the mail, and I'll share some of the thoughts I put on the back of this form:
1) Even though I bought the bike from a dealer in Wisconsin, the Survey form shows that I bought it from a dealer in Texas. Given that the Wisconsin dealer sent in the paperwork that gave H-D my name and address, you would think that the computer system could recognize that sometimes dealers trade new bikes among themselves, and account for this.
2) I've been to five dealerships in my local area. Not one of the parts or service guys was even aware of the existence of a Special Service Tool for adjusting the preload on the V-Rod rear shocks. (The tool is clearly listed in the Owners Manual).
3) I ordered almost a thousand dollars worth of current parts and accessories for my new V-Rod (the dealer did give me a nice discount on this..). Even though my dealer is located less than 30 miles from H-D's distribution center, it took almost a month to get all the parts. Even worse, neither the dealer nor H-D had any idea when the parts would actually show up.
4) I had a relatively (I thought) simple question regarding the correct jacking point on my V-Rod. After waiting 45 minutes on hold to be connected with someone in customer service, she had no idea of what the answer was, even after referring to the Service Manual.
None of the above are serious enough to make me in any way a "dissatisfied" customer. But it appears to me that H-D spent six years and many millions of dollars developing the V-Rod; and then quite forgot to let any of the service and parts people know about it, or at least to make proper arrangements for training people. It also appears that H-D's information systems are not up to the task of providing 21st Century customer service. Look at Dennis Kirk: they stock everything in their catalog, they ship the day they receive the order; and if you don't get it when you think you should, they have an order tracking system to help you locate it. This is the standard for doing business in the internet age. If Harley Davidson is really serious about becoming a "world class" company, this is the sort of standard they need to work towards.
Harley has almost doubled its unit production in the last four or five years - something I doubt many other companies could do without letting quality fall in the toilet. I guess you could be cynical and say that this is their way of customer service, but it does at least show that they are willing to make the investment to try to keep pace with demand. An investment in a factory takes years to amortize - who is to say if there will be quite the same demand for bikes five years from now?
Overall I've been very pleased with my Harley. The design, engineering, and overall quality of the bike has been everything I could ask for. I felt I was fairly treated by my dealer, and (I guess I was lucky) I didn't have to wait for my bike. I just got my dealer satisfaction survey in the mail, and I'll share some of the thoughts I put on the back of this form:
1) Even though I bought the bike from a dealer in Wisconsin, the Survey form shows that I bought it from a dealer in Texas. Given that the Wisconsin dealer sent in the paperwork that gave H-D my name and address, you would think that the computer system could recognize that sometimes dealers trade new bikes among themselves, and account for this.
2) I've been to five dealerships in my local area. Not one of the parts or service guys was even aware of the existence of a Special Service Tool for adjusting the preload on the V-Rod rear shocks. (The tool is clearly listed in the Owners Manual).
3) I ordered almost a thousand dollars worth of current parts and accessories for my new V-Rod (the dealer did give me a nice discount on this..). Even though my dealer is located less than 30 miles from H-D's distribution center, it took almost a month to get all the parts. Even worse, neither the dealer nor H-D had any idea when the parts would actually show up.
4) I had a relatively (I thought) simple question regarding the correct jacking point on my V-Rod. After waiting 45 minutes on hold to be connected with someone in customer service, she had no idea of what the answer was, even after referring to the Service Manual.
None of the above are serious enough to make me in any way a "dissatisfied" customer. But it appears to me that H-D spent six years and many millions of dollars developing the V-Rod; and then quite forgot to let any of the service and parts people know about it, or at least to make proper arrangements for training people. It also appears that H-D's information systems are not up to the task of providing 21st Century customer service. Look at Dennis Kirk: they stock everything in their catalog, they ship the day they receive the order; and if you don't get it when you think you should, they have an order tracking system to help you locate it. This is the standard for doing business in the internet age. If Harley Davidson is really serious about becoming a "world class" company, this is the sort of standard they need to work towards.
All great posts y'all. I can see everyones point of view regardless of how they feel about The MoCo.
I suppose the most frustrating factor for me is knowing, That Harley Riders take pride in buying American Iron. We feel great to know that world wide, a Harley on any Road, is the ultimate hands down.
Is it too much to ask, that American Harley Riders should also be able to take pride in the fact that American Iron comes with a strong commitment for support to it's customers?
Taking Pride in buying American is taking pride in our home and literally the future of this planet.
I honesly feel that Harley Davidson has capitalized on our Patriotism in a less than honorable fashion when it comes to the "Family" they advertize to be. I honestly believe they are loseing touch with the one thing they need to keep them alive, The American Biker.
An American Biker is one whom if you treat in an honorable fashion, they will respect you. If however you don't, they are not the type to long put up with things that bother them. For a bit it can be written off to patience, which is after all a virtue. But after a while, there is no excusing the crap they pull.
If American Bussiness does not prioritize customer support, they will eventually lose the market to someone who does. That is not good for Bussiness, and ultimately, if our American Companies don't wake up, "MADE IN THE UNITED STATES" will become a collectors item in an antique shop, run by someone who probably does not speak English.
I suppose the most frustrating factor for me is knowing, That Harley Riders take pride in buying American Iron. We feel great to know that world wide, a Harley on any Road, is the ultimate hands down.
Is it too much to ask, that American Harley Riders should also be able to take pride in the fact that American Iron comes with a strong commitment for support to it's customers?
Taking Pride in buying American is taking pride in our home and literally the future of this planet.
I honesly feel that Harley Davidson has capitalized on our Patriotism in a less than honorable fashion when it comes to the "Family" they advertize to be. I honestly believe they are loseing touch with the one thing they need to keep them alive, The American Biker.
An American Biker is one whom if you treat in an honorable fashion, they will respect you. If however you don't, they are not the type to long put up with things that bother them. For a bit it can be written off to patience, which is after all a virtue. But after a while, there is no excusing the crap they pull.
If American Bussiness does not prioritize customer support, they will eventually lose the market to someone who does. That is not good for Bussiness, and ultimately, if our American Companies don't wake up, "MADE IN THE UNITED STATES" will become a collectors item in an antique shop, run by someone who probably does not speak English.
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21,644 Posts
Cox9000, one thing you have to keep in mind when comparing new bikes is what the bike is really worth the day you bring it home.
Keep in mind that if you keep oil in it, and rinse down the mud every now and then, you are basically putting your monthly payments in a savings account. For all intents and purposes you get to ride the bike for nothing. No other Manufacturer even comes close. Take a look at the motorcycle ads in the classified, alot of the HD's are being sold for more than they cost new. Now look at the rockets, and jap cruisers, they depreciate faster than a cage. This isn't all just hype, fact is a well taken care of HD will last you a life time, I don't think you can say the same thing for any other bike.
Or if you get old like me, can just trade it in for a new HDTV and a Lazy-Boy recliner.
That having been said: Have you seen the T-shirts:
Harley Davidson R.I.P, Killed by Greed.
Keep in mind that if you keep oil in it, and rinse down the mud every now and then, you are basically putting your monthly payments in a savings account. For all intents and purposes you get to ride the bike for nothing. No other Manufacturer even comes close. Take a look at the motorcycle ads in the classified, alot of the HD's are being sold for more than they cost new. Now look at the rockets, and jap cruisers, they depreciate faster than a cage. This isn't all just hype, fact is a well taken care of HD will last you a life time, I don't think you can say the same thing for any other bike.
Or if you get old like me, can just trade it in for a new HDTV and a Lazy-Boy recliner.
That having been said: Have you seen the T-shirts:
Harley Davidson R.I.P, Killed by Greed.
You're right DJW, the resale value is great on a Harley. That's why I haven't been able to afford a Harley until now. I couldn't even afford a used Harley, they're the same price (and even higher) as a new one. I didn't wait all this time to buy a used bike because used bikes are all I've ever had.
Thanks for the input and I think I'll pass on the T-shirts HA!
Thanks for the input and I think I'll pass on the T-shirts HA!
Joined
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959 Posts
What it comes down to is a love-hate relationship between HD and its customers. We customers love the bike and hate the company; HD loves our money but hates us. And only HD can change this, since we aren't going to start loving the moco til they stop being such greedy shitheads.
My personal opinion is they don't care. They have our money and try to scare us into using them for all maintenance, parts, etc. They don't have a means of contacting them via the web but are trying to take this forum.
They preach 'family' but you don't do family the way they do us. I've read all kinds of message/topics. They spout American made but lots of their stuff is made overseas(boots, jackets, parts, etc.). Probably about 50%(or more) of the parts put on our bikes is made overseas. I know it's cheaper but don't preach American made(i.e patriotism) to me while you're undercutting American jobs.
Topic of oil recently has come up and they won't even allow the manufacturer of their oil put their name on it. I believe they also had some kind of fall out with Mobil about making synthetic oil. They wouldn't allow anything but H-D to be put on bottle so Mobil said bye-bye. But yet, they'll allow all kinds of stuff from Pakistan, China, etc. to be made and sell with no problem as long as it says H-D on it. Why not allow a trusted name like Mobil be on important product like oil?
They preach 'family' but you don't do family the way they do us. I've read all kinds of message/topics. They spout American made but lots of their stuff is made overseas(boots, jackets, parts, etc.). Probably about 50%(or more) of the parts put on our bikes is made overseas. I know it's cheaper but don't preach American made(i.e patriotism) to me while you're undercutting American jobs.
Topic of oil recently has come up and they won't even allow the manufacturer of their oil put their name on it. I believe they also had some kind of fall out with Mobil about making synthetic oil. They wouldn't allow anything but H-D to be put on bottle so Mobil said bye-bye. But yet, they'll allow all kinds of stuff from Pakistan, China, etc. to be made and sell with no problem as long as it says H-D on it. Why not allow a trusted name like Mobil be on important product like oil?
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