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There is a tremendous amount of incredible information on this [email protected]: BUT with that being said I use it as a source of entertainment as much as information. I have found the answers to many questions on here. Like codes that flash across when there is a problem with the bike. I printed off a wonderful list. Fixed the problem myself and saved myself a ton of money not to mention hours at a stealership waiting for a diagnosis that I can do myself. Now the problem comes if any one out there places a lot of strength on the type of oil used from the polls on here. Usually, now not always, most of those using these web forums have a problem or are trying to find an answer and are a strict do-it-yourselfer. I praise anyone that works on their own bike, provided they have the time. Now I am not trying to step on toes, I have no clue which oil is the best to use. But But But as a pharmacist I read multiple clinical journals looking at clinical trials trying to wade thru the bullshittt that is reported. Many times a great in statistics can crunch numbers and prove anything. One of the most important things to look for in clinical trials for drugs is the reporting of relative versus absolute risk reduction. Absolute is much more important to know. I say this because i use the same school of thought in pharmacy that I do in motorcycles. Reporting data is reporting data. Now if you only have 2000 documented cases of a particular disease to test a new drug on then thats all you have. BUT there are millions of air cooled V-twins out there either S&S or Harley alone. Now there is no way to draw conclusions that most are using AMSOIL or Mobil 1 or whatever when only 2000 or less have participated in the survey. The numbers are too low. We need at least 20,000 or 50,000 would be even better. I would bet that 90 percent of all those using Syn3 arent reporting on here, even those using regular 360. Thats because most riders that take thier bikes in for service at their dealer arent on this site. They take their bike in for repair and would call the dealer for answers before looking up something online. I have asked several guys in a Harley shop and none of them use the net for Harley unless its ordering a part or making reservations for a Harley rally. Hmmm...think about it. Last fall when I had several hours to kill I hung out at the back of the shop of my local stealership and asked the guys what they were using. A couple used AMSOIL, a few here and there Mobil 1 in their tranny and Syn3 in the engine and Formula + primary. But for the most part the clear winner was one of two ways. Syn3 all around, or Syn3 in the engine and primary and formula + in the gearbox. Now other variations existed including the use of Formula + in the trans and primary and syn3 in the engine. But the winner by far and verified by the dealer was Syn3 all around. Dealers have a lot of influence on this they love to sell their oil and make money. I myself dont use Syn3 all around. Engine oil was never made for a gearbox. Never has been and never will be "most likely". I dont have an answer for you except I dont agree with the numbers online here as to what the majority of guys are runnning in their bikes. This has turned into a long thread but I have a lot of time to chat on here and love to share things I learn. I own two bikes one harley and a hayabusa drag bike. I would never use dino oil in my drag bike except for the break in period as requested by suzuki. After break in I switch to synthetics because I keep a bike I like for years and years. I dont plan on having to go inside that engine either for years and years. By that I mean 10 to 15 years and no internal engine work at all.
 

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Just pidlin'
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Welcome

Welcome to the forum. You have some good thoughts.
 

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Good points.

Most of the Harley riders that take their bikes to the local shop for work are not what I call bikers. Now wait... I know that they are as into the sport as much as anyone. I also know that these folks all love riding as much as anyone. But, I'm old school and bikers can work on their own bikes while riders take their bikes to the shop for work. Heck, most of these folks either don't know how to change their own oil, they don't want to learn, or they just plain don't want to get in there and get dirty. The Harley riding public include a huge number of these riders. And truthfully there is not a thing wrong with that. To each his own.

Anyway, I agree with the above. These riders who take their bikes in for service are getting HD oil and are happy with it. Those of us who do our own work use whatever we feel is better then HD oil. Ask bikers what they use and you'll get one answer... ask riders what they use and you'll get another... if they even know what they are using.

Something else I noticed... the riders who are using whatever the shop pours in seem to be getting along just as good as those of us who change our own and use something we think is better. Who's right and who's wrong?

Like I said... to each his own. Now get out there and ride.
 

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wlwhd07 said:
There is a tremendous amount of incredible information on this [email protected]: BUT with that being said I use it as a source of entertainment as much as information. I have found the answers to many questions on here. Like codes that flash across when there is a problem with the bike. I printed off a wonderful list. Fixed the problem myself and saved myself a ton of money not to mention hours at a stealership waiting for a diagnosis that I can do myself. Now the problem comes if any one out there places a lot of strength on the type of oil used from the polls on here. Usually, now not always, most of those using these web forums have a problem or are trying to find an answer and are a strict do-it-yourselfer. I praise anyone that works on their own bike, provided they have the time. Now I am not trying to step on toes, I have no clue which oil is the best to use. But But But as a pharmacist I read multiple clinical journals looking at clinical trials trying to wade thru the bullshittt that is reported. Many times a great in statistics can crunch numbers and prove anything. One of the most important things to look for in clinical trials for drugs is the reporting of relative versus absolute risk reduction. Absolute is much more important to know. I say this because i use the same school of thought in pharmacy that I do in motorcycles. Reporting data is reporting data. Now if you only have 2000 documented cases of a particular disease to test a new drug on then thats all you have. BUT there are millions of air cooled V-twins out there either S&S or Harley alone. Now there is no way to draw conclusions that most are using AMSOIL or Mobil 1 or whatever when only 2000 or less have participated in the survey. The numbers are too low. We need at least 20,000 or 50,000 would be even better. I would bet that 90 percent of all those using Syn3 arent reporting on here, even those using regular 360. Thats because most riders that take thier bikes in for service at their dealer arent on this site. They take their bike in for repair and would call the dealer for answers before looking up something online. I have asked several guys in a Harley shop and none of them use the net for Harley unless its ordering a part or making reservations for a Harley rally. Hmmm...think about it. Last fall when I had several hours to kill I hung out at the back of the shop of my local stealership and asked the guys what they were using. A couple used AMSOIL, a few here and there Mobil 1 in their tranny and Syn3 in the engine and Formula + primary. But for the most part the clear winner was one of two ways. Syn3 all around, or Syn3 in the engine and primary and formula + in the gearbox. Now other variations existed including the use of Formula + in the trans and primary and syn3 in the engine. But the winner by far and verified by the dealer was Syn3 all around. Dealers have a lot of influence on this they love to sell their oil and make money. I myself dont use Syn3 all around. Engine oil was never made for a gearbox. Never has been and never will be "most likely". I dont have an answer for you except I dont agree with the numbers online here as to what the majority of guys are runnning in their bikes. This has turned into a long thread but I have a lot of time to chat on here and love to share things I learn. I own two bikes one harley and a hayabusa drag bike. I would never use dino oil in my drag bike except for the break in period as requested by suzuki. After break in I switch to synthetics because I keep a bike I like for years and years. I dont plan on having to go inside that engine either for years and years. By that I mean 10 to 15 years and no internal engine work at all.
Welcome to this forum and the sharing of your thoughts. I would like to give you some findings that I have learned over the nearly 4 years that I have been a participant on this forum. There is many members here that do not change their own oil or do their own service work and there is plenty that do it themselves. The ratio of each would be hard to tell, but I have shipped oil to well over a 1,000 bikers on this site that have carried their oil to the HD dealer or their local independent to install for them. Of course I have had probably as many do their own changes. I don't run into many bikers that don't know what oil is in their bike whether they put it in or have it done.

You had mentioned that the polls here may not give a true picture of who is using what and that is probably true to some degree, but synthetics have been dominating over the last 5 years or so and syn3, even though it is pushed by HD does not have the largest share of the synthetic motorcycle oil market that one might assume. Another company has the largest share and it starts with the letter A. One reason a HD dealer pushes sny3 is to get a better parts discount from HD. I have seen many HD dealers quit selling Amsoil that was moving off their shelves very nicely. The reason was their oil purchases from harley are tied directly into the discount on their part purchases and if they don't purchase enough syn3 oil it cost them money on parts. Many manufactures do this by leveraging their oil purchases against what they pay for everything else. This partly explains why they push the relabeled oil that someone makes for them instead of carrying a fuller line of different brands of oils. You really can't blame them as they have to make a profit to stay in business.

You mentioned that motor oil was never designed for gear boxes. This is partly true depending on how the gears are cut and designed. The HD tranny does not require a gearlube even though many bikers feel more comfortable using it. The formula + product is a straight 50 weight mineral oil with some anti-wear additives and a small amount of EP in it. Automotive manufactures have been using motor oils and even ATF in manual speed gearboxes for nearly 40 years now.

Again welcome to this site and feel free to look around. This site is loaded with tons of good info. Just my two cents from a biker who has been riding for over 40 years and formed some opinions while doing it.
 
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