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To DJW I don't know what you do for a living but I am currently in the Navy and please tell me why I don't deserve that pay raise Mr. McCain voted against. Every day I look at other jobs that are the same as what I do and they get a helluva lot more than me. Also, do you know what an E-1 in the service makes. Let me tell you it ain't much, can you imagine trying to raise children on about 1500 dollars a month in the state of california. Well our soldiers and sailors do it. Furthermore tell me how that person is going to have a roof over his head. It's not fun but somehow he'll make it no thanks to some senator voting for a raise for himself and against a raise for our military. :confused:
 

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show me the beef bugzdad! Show me where john mccain has ever voted against ANYTHING for the military, and don't bother me with some b.s. website that wouldn't know a fact from a fart! You should know who your friends are, and if you think it's GWB and not John McCain they you deserve what you get. As for what an E-1 makes trying to raise children...I thought that's what E-1 meant. Look I mean no disrepect, but when you're at the bottom rung of a ladder, any ladder, it sucks. Surprise nobody's handing out anything to the guys at the bottom no matter where you work. Now if, you're a CEO, the world wan't to give you everything, but when you got nothing you get nothing. Please just take a few minutes and do the research. Show me when McCain vetoed a raise. Was it attached someothe bs bill like more damn money wasted on the osprey? or some other scam that gets a raise attached to the military that everybody wants but makes the senator swallow some ridiculous crap like 10 billion dollars to study alligators in alaska. You want a raise then get GWB to scap his plan to spend 120 billion in a war in Iraq, or a trillion dollars for an antimissle missle anti antimissle system that can't possibly work. That should be plenty of money, and I would be thrilled to see the money go to you and every other grunt that is now or ever has been in the miliary.


I really don't want to continue this thread. I'm not a vet, and this is the vets forum (doesn't mean I'm staying out of the ladies lair though) and when someone says "it's just different when you've been there" they're probably right. So I'll say no more.
 

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Navy Times

I sure wish I had some of my old copies of Navy Times magazines from election time. They had Senater John McCains voiting record for military issues in it. It was worse than many Democrates. Senater McCain is no friend of the Military.

I'm not against McCain because of some web site. I did not like him because of what I read in magazines and news papers about his voting record. Military loby groups did not support McCain. He has a forked tongue. He says one thing and votes another.

I do however respect his military service, just like I respect any other vet.

As for military pay, it suck. Your right, E-1 is at the bottom. Food stamp elgible. An E-4 with 3 kids is food stamp elgible also, that is not the bottom.

I retired as an E-7, definatley not the bottom. Every job offer I had when I retired was at least a 15,000 a year pay riase. All those job offers were entry level management in maintenance. I was in up level management in maintenace when I retired from the Navy in 2001.

My first year out of the Navy I made more than double my Navy pay. I did this working less hours and going home every night.


As a civilain you may not understand that a sailor at sea works 12 hours a day or more, seven days a week. That we are gone from home 6 months at a time. When I bought my house in Jan 1996, I got to sleep in it 59 times that year, or I was away from home over 300 days! In 1997 I got to spend 124 nights in my house. All for less than 40K a year!

Everyone in the military needs a pay riase. However, we do not serve for the money. If I served for the money I would have quit at 4 years. Or I would have taken the early retirement at 15years with a cash bouns to quit. I did it because it made me feel proud to be an American. I did it because it was the right and honerable thing to do. I did it becaue it is a great group of people.

I would do it all over again in a heart beat. I'll bet you find most vets would do it again. You also find most vets say the military needs and deserves a big pay raise. It's sad the people we trust to defend our country, our fredom are on food stamps.
 

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the proof is in the puddin

Congress approves military pay raise
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- Overcoming objections to base closings, Congress gave final approval Thursday to a $343 billion defense authorization bill. It includes the largest military pay raise in two decades, an increase in anti-terrorism money and full funding of President Bush's missile defense efforts.

The vote in the House was 382-40, followed several hours later by a 96-2 vote in the Senate.

The measure now goes to Bush for his signature. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who threatened to recommend a veto if the bill did not include a base-closing round in 2003, would not say whether the 2005 round in the legislation would allay that threat.

The defense legislation authorizes spending by the Defense Department and military efforts of the Energy Department for the budget year that began Oct. 1. It contains a $33 billion increase, or 10.6 percent, over 2001 spending.

Also Thursday, the Senate unanimously passed the intelligence authorization bill by a voice vote and sent it to the White House. It places new emphasis on human spy networks and calls for an increase of about 8 percent in spending. The actual spending on intelligence, generally not made public, has been estimated at about $30 billion for the past few years.

The defense measure offers service members minimum 5 percent across-the-board pay raises -- 10 percent increases in some cases -- effective Jan. 1. "The most generous pay raise in 20 years" was the assessment of Rep. Bob Stump, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

The bill provides more help with moving expenses and a major boost in construction spending, including improvements to family housing.

"Halfway around the globe, thousands of sons and daughters are engaged in a noble cause against the forces of evil and intolerance," said Stump, R-Ariz. "Our job is to support them, provide them the necessary resources and tools to successfully accomplish this task and ensure that they are safely returned to their families."

At the same time, the bill "has something in it to disappoint virtually everyone involved," Stump said. Opposition from Stump and others to base closings delayed passage for a month.

The agreement to one round of base closings in 2005, two years after the administration wanted one, was the compromise he proposed to get the legislation through.

Rumsfeld pushed hard for a base-closing round in 2003. It could save $3 billion or more a year for essential military activities, Rumsfeld had said, adding that he would recommend Bush veto the bill unless that was included.

Asked about the status of the veto threat, Rumsfeld said Thursday at a Pentagon news conference, "I'm going to have to sleep on that."

The delay would mean that the nation would retain as many as one-quarter more bases than it needs, he said. That, in turn, would divert dollars and military personnel from accomplishing "something truly important with respect to the war on terrorism, and it's a shame," Rumsfeld said.

Many lawmakers were skeptical about the savings and they opposed shutdowns while the nation is both at war and mired in an economic slump.

A nine-member commission appointed by the president, in consultation with Congress, would review the defense secretary's list of facilities to be closed.

The president could approve the commission's list and send it to Congress, or return it to the panel. Neither Congress nor the president could make changes to the list.

Previous closing rounds -- in 1988, 1991, 1993 and 1995 -- led to closure or realignment of 451 installations.

On missile defense research and development, Bush would get his full $8.3 billion request, a $3.1 billion increase over 2001. Thursday also was the day Bush notified Russia that the United States was pulling out of the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty because it would impede progress on the program.

Of the $8.3 billion, Bush could use $1.3 billion for anti-terrorism efforts instead if he wants.

The defense bill includes another $7 billion for anti-terrorism spending, a $1 billion increase from 2001.

As the administration requested, the negotiators canceled the January referendum in Vieques on future use of that Puerto Rican island for military training. Bush has promised to end the maneuvers by 2003.

The two votes in the Senate against the bill came from Democrat Robert Byrd of West Virginia and Republican John McCain of Arizona. Sens. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., and Patty Murray, D-Wash., did not vote.

original story from san francisco examiner
 

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There it fucing is there.
 

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McCain, foe of the military!

Misguided said:
Congress approves military pay raise
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- Overcoming objections to base closings, Congress gave final approval Thursday to a $343 billion defense authorization bill. It includes the largest military pay raise in two decades, an increase in anti-terrorism money and full funding of President Bush's missile defense efforts.


The two votes in the Senate against the bill came from Democrat Robert Byrd of West Virginia and Republican John McCain of Arizona. Sens. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., and Patty Murray, D-Wash., did not vote.

original story from san francisco examiner

John McCain once again proves he is no friend of the US Military. I guess when you earn more than 125,000 dollars a year, you quickly forget what it's like to make 20,000 a year or less!
 

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Looked in the Senator's archives...this is from official records...(long)

I too appreciate doing my homework. It's a simple fool to believe what is posted on some web site, in the media, etc...hell those are the people who call the 1-900-hot date #'s cuz they believe that girl on the commercial really wants to speak to them, on a personal level..what is not known is that she is a 245lb cigar smokin', woman who's incessant wheezing is mistaken for sexy moan... anyways, I am a US Navy vet, and 5 yars in the Army Nat'l guard...love my country, and didn't join to get rich, as I remember it, I had 3 meals a day, guaranteed roof over my head..3 hots and a cot and I wanted only for was...well a sweet little hottie and more beer if I remember correctly. Neandertal to da end...Here is some of what I found...

Bill Summary & Status for the 107th Congress

Sponsored legislation:

48. S.2564 : A bill to modify the calculation of back pay for persons who were approved for promotion as members of the Navy and Marine Corps while interned as prisoners of war during World War II to take into account changes in the Consumer Price Index.
Sponsor: Sen McCain, John
Committees: Senate Armed Services
Latest Major Action: 5/23/2002 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.

69. S.AMDT.869 to S.1077 To provide additional funds for military personnel, working-capital funds, mission-critical maintenance, force protection, and other purposes by increasing amounts appropriated to the Department of Defense, and to offset the increases by reducing and rescinding certain appropriations.
Sponsor: Sen McCain, John
Latest Major Action: 7/10/2001 Motion to table amendment SA 869 agreed to in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 83 - 16. Record Vote Number: 226.

Cosponsored Legislation....

41. S.170 : A bill to amend title 10, United States Code, to permit retired members of the Armed Forces who have a service-connected disability to receive both military retired pay by reason of their years of military service and disability compensation from the Department of Veterans Affairs for their disability.
Sponsor: Sen Reid, Harry M.
Committees: Senate Armed Services


55. S.540 : A bill to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to allow as a deduction in determining adjusted gross income the deduction for expenses in connection with services as a member of a reserve component of the Armed Forces of the United States, to allow employers a credit against income tax with respect to employees who participate in the military reserve components, and to allow a comparable credit for participating reserve component self-employed individuals, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen DeWine, Michael
Committees: Senate Finance


37. S.J.RES.46 : A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
Sponsor: Sen Lieberman, Joseph I.
Latest Major Action: 10/3/2002 Senate preparation for floor. Status: Read the second time. Placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 630.
Note: For further action, see H.J.Res. 114, which became Public Law 107-243 on 10/16/2002.
 

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DJW said:
I really don't want to continue this thread. I'm not a vet, and this is the vets forum. So I'll say no more.
Damn good idea! :D
 

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Very well put Chuckfw. It is clear this very last pay raise Mr. Mcain voted against it.

He also has no clue that our E-1'a make less than minimum wage, but yet they are defending our Freedoms.:mad:
 

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Army Airborn. "W" brings respect to the mill. and America. As for McCain I think he is bad for America. He only uses his past for his gain and not the country. He is a lib that is pretending to be for the people.
 
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