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Discussion Starter #1
What do you guys know about the big Four MC's , like the Hells Angels and Outlaws? I was looking at biker sites and found this and just thought it was completely outrageous.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33710

I just got done reading Sonny Bargers book and while they were trouble makers in the 70's and 80's it sounds like the cops just havent gotten over it.
Theres one post in here where it says that H/A's have attacked police stations with missile launchers...
 

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From the link you posted It sounds like they were trying to jack him up as far as they could. I am NOT in favor of being pulled over without probable cause. I am also NOT in favor of drug dealers. I deal with Mongols now and then in my bar and have never had a problem or even any disrespect. When asked to leave weapons outside it was no problem. Now Im not going to pat down anyone but the 12" knife is a bit much. I see HA s on the road sometimes, They hang out a few towns away. Most patch holders are just like anyone else except for a little different life style. I have been in large numbers of patch holder and you won't hear or see anything that they don't want you to see. Nowdays most don't even drink very much in bars. One night we had a few patch holders outside the bar and the police rolled up and start giving them ****. They also gave me some **** for letting them be in my bar. I told the cop that he was more trouble to me then they were. Which was the truth. He didn't have much to say after that. No don't get me wrong I have much respect for the police and they have my full support until I see them messing with someones rights.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
04GLIDE said:
From the link you posted It sounds like they were trying to jack him up as far as they could. I am NOT in favor of being pulled over without probable cause. I am also NOT in favor of drug dealers. I deal with Mongols now and then in my bar and have never had a problem or even any disrespect. When asked to leave weapons outside it was no problem. Now Im not going to pat down anyone but the 12" knife is a bit much. I see HA s on the road sometimes, They hang out a few towns away. Most patch holders are just like anyone else except for a little different life style. I have been in large numbers of patch holder and you won't hear or see anything that they don't want you to see. Nowdays most don't even drink very much in bars. One night we had a few patch holders outside the bar and the police rolled up and start giving them ****. They also gave me some **** for letting them be in my bar. I told the cop that he was more trouble to me then they were. Which was the truth. He didn't have much to say after that. No don't get me wrong I have much respect for the police and they have my full support until I see them messing with someones rights.

The area that I live in is Outlaw territory and I've yet to see any of them, and I ride alot. But by the looks of that website, everyone of those posts has cops saying the most ridiculous sounding stuff. H/A's carry rocket launchers, they are a huge criminal orginaztion... Im interested in joining a club and I know a few club members in my old home town, and this stuff is just to funny.

Its seems pretty ignorant that cops think this is the 60s and 70s again.
 

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There is a lot of crime in the outlaw MC world. Most you will never see. There are many MCs that are not big into crime. You will have to do alot of reserch on the subject though. I have been asked to attend social gatherings by 1% clubs but it's not my thing. Im more of a loner and don't have the time for that kind of stuff. I have no desire to wear a patch of any kind. I have met a lot of nice people though. If thats the kind of thing you need in your life go for it. If I were you though I would think twice about any hard core club.
 

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Man, some of the posts at the LEO forum piss me off. My dad worked for the Dept of Justice. Corporate and business law was my major in college and so I understand to a point. But I will say this and I don't care if it pisses anyone off. Not long ago I was riding thru one of the small suburbs on my Harley and a LEO pulls me over. Starts asking if I have any weapons on me and pretty much in general giving me crap. I am respectful, answer his questions and then ask him why he stopped me. He said " it looked like the LED's on my Kuryakyan mirrors were red from were he was". I said excuse me, you mean these amber lights as I pointed at them. I asked him what color they looked to him and he answered "orange". What was funny was the officer in training that was with him said, "no, their amber, they look fine to me" The guy just had a hard on and wanted to show off in front of the officer in training. He chilled out, relaxed his posture a little and tired to talk Harley's with me. I knew he was full of it because he couldn't pronounce the work Kuryakyan and when he said he also rode I asked what kind of bike he had. He said I ride a FLHTP or something like that and I just grinned. He was full of it. When's the last time you answered someone like that when they asked what kind of bike you have? If someone asks me I don't say "FXSTD". I say "a Softail" and if they pry more then I say "a Deuce". My point you ask? Some cops simply take their authority over the top, their out to conquer the world. Instead of going after the actual law breaking criminals, they have to harass bikers in general. Granted most the LEOS I know are really cool, but its the young bucks that piss me off. I think the State Patrol have it right because you have to be a certain minimum age to be eligible. Most the cops that are older are usually the coolest ones. I guess I will get off my soap box now, man, I can get going on this topic.

peace--
 

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I went to the link and had a few laughs.

Cops childishly bickering with other cops.

They've left me no one to root for. :laugh:
 

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The LE officers I know, both active and recently retired, tell me that outlaw MC clubs (and remember--huge difference between the 1% organizations and honest MC clubs--we all know the difference) are just as much involved in criminal activity as ever--just a different kind.

They've gotten smarter and more behind the scenes. Big players in drug and weapon trafficking up and down the east coast. Errand boys for organized crime.

True, they also put on local charity events and fund raisers. That's to help their public image and establish alibis.

Don't kid yourselves. Don't let them kid you, either.
 

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One thing to consider when reading the LEO posts about MCs is that in many LEOs minds, a 1% patch-holder is guilty until proven innocent -- and then he's guilty anyway.
 

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It is the 70s all over again. The LEOs want to be the baddest gang around. I have news for them, they are employed and trained to be professional to everyone and tough when they have to. This posturing with your competition for ganghood only brings you to thier level. You are what you are , they are different. If you want to catch them doing something wrong, go undercover, stopping them on thier bikes just shows the world how petty you, as a person, are.
Do you want a pissing contest? You just might get hurt. They have real good lawyers and they can end your carreer fast.
If you don't like the lifestyle, fine. Harass them for no reason, you just show how petty you are.
The Mafia doesn't war on cops, neither do these guys. If you give them a personal reason, they just might see you off duty.

Don't tease the gorillia, you won't win.
 

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This statement said it all for me

"Our motor officer trailed him for awhile, found a reason to stop him, and did so with me as back-up. "

If a cop, or anyone else for that matter, is looking for trouble he will usually find it. Yep, there are bad bikers, but there are also jails full of bad cops.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you read on through like page 2 or 3, these cops are talking about how if your clubs patch has 3 pieces, your automatically John Gotti's second in command. These guys are insane. They dont even know what a 1%'r is and they are talking about how everyone who has that on their colors is a hardened killer.

Makes me feel alot less respectful of the cops.
 

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I ride for with a 3 piece patch club. We are Christian Club. The center punch has "Christian MC" on it, the bottom rocker reads "Jesus is Lord".

Our club (a national club) has be officially declared an "outlaw %1" club by the gang task force. seriously. (BTW- We've done precisely nothing to earn that label, except wear top rocker, center punch, and bottom rocker.)
 

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I have no criminal record, but as a rule, I don't like cops. For no other reason than that I ride, I've been subjected to their "presumed guilty until proven inocent" tactics way too many times to defend them as normal human beings. They aren't. They're taught to be aloof and suspicious at all times. No wonder their divorce rate is so high. That said, there are exceptions to what is, unfortunately, the rule. But for the life of me, I don't understand how those normal people/cops can get along with the vast majority of their bretheren. But I tip my hat to them. Must be a hard row to hoe. But make no mistake about it, I assume that any cop that pulls me over is going to be a jerk, so I'm always on my best behavior. Most of the time, I'm right. When I'm not, I'm still glad I didn't waste the good behavior.
 

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I ride in a Club and have flown my 3 piece patch for 15 years.

Yes, I've been undully harrassed, but I expect it (it goes with the territory).

I wouldn't trade the last 15 years with my Brothers for any of it though.

I've been around many clubs and in many clubhouses over the years.

IMO- the Big Blue Gang (LEO) are as bad (or worse) than most real Clubs.
 

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Black Magic said:
I will second that one! serve and protect, they need to get a new motto the old one is obsolete
naw, to serve and protect is acurate, we just assume it applies to anyone other than the Big Blue Club.
 

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I wonder if it has to do with the area you live in? I have never been harrased by LEO's and no one I know has. Including the few patch holders we have around here. But to say that LEO's are out to get bikers is just unbelievable. I know what your talking though because these are the same guys who do this stuff with ordinary citizens.
 

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C'mon guys, your kidding right? The fact is that there are some people who are a*sholes. Not all cops are, and not all HA's are, but there is also a big difference between a MC club and an organization like an "Outlaw" motorcycle club like the HA's or Pagans or whatever. They didn't come into existence for the "joy of riding" and then just decided to conduct illegal activity at a future date as a group, did they.The comparison to the Mafia is a good one, but are we really saying that even though LE knows there is illegal activity in their midst and the criminals retain good lawyers they should be feared or ignored. Should Bloods and Crypts etc be harassed more because they dont have as much organization or as talented lawyers.
We all should know by now that when we ride, we attract the LE's attention for whatever reason (crackdowns on pipes, handlebars, community complaints) whatever the reason. It sucks but its always been that way, and its not going to change. The majority of cops don't look for trouble, are at least as normal as average and do respond to assist in some of the most effed up situations there are. Who do you think is usually first to respond to MC wrecks to render assistance, before the FD and paramedics arrive? Does it really bother you that there are DWI stops by 5-0 to pull the drunks off the streets that will run over your wife and children. Do I believe that outlaw MC clubs put up resistance or act poorly when they are pulled over - absolutely not- they are not stupid and dont want to draw more attention to themselves than necessary. But the reason they act that way is different than when Joe blow VTwin forum rider gets pulled over. Joe blow more than likely is having his time intruded on for paperwork checks, helmet compliance, license vs permit, equipment violations etc. Is it right for bikers to be singled out over cagers - hell no - join Abate and help take legislative action (although it probably wont help). When the 1% er gets pulled over it is much more likely that he is worrying about more than his too high bars, or drag pipes than Vtwin Joe is, don't you think.
For those that say the big blue gang is worse - think about that. Worse than what? Even if falsely accused you get your day in court. You think if you piss of a real 1%er you can concoct some lame ass story and hell give you a second chance. good luck............

....flame away
 
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