Making Stock Shocks Better
let me kinda bring you guys up to speed on what I've done here...
I am no means a shock expert but I believe I know what I like in the way of a quaility ride...
1 yr. ago I purchased a set of 12" shocks from a member and when they arrived there was fluid all over the box in which they were shipped in...I seemed to remember somewhere that the fluid could be changed or at least put back in, so a search was on the way to re-confirm this...BINGO, I found what I was hoping to find along with the stock shocks are a POS and just go get a new set of Progressives...
Well as cheap as I am, I wanted to try and re-use the stock set first before I invested in a newer set due to the fact that I liked the idea of having the air to adjust the ride...
So I had the shocks in hand and found some 7.5 wt shock fluid from one of the local indy shops and and began my little adventure...First I had to drain all the old fluid out and this I found to be the most time consumming process out of the entire ordeal...I had to create a rocking motion with the shock to get the fluid out...I removed the fluid and measured it and to my amazement, the amount of fluid that I had measured wasn't the same amount that was called for on the search I did...OK no big deal it was close and there was fluid all over the box so this would account for the absence of fluid in the shock that I picked up for the experiment...
After both shocks were full and I had them on the bike and bolted in I tried to pump some air in them but had a leak so as I was fumbling with them I had some of the fluid running out all over me and the shock...never gave it a bit of thought about this...Just alittle to much...
The 12" were on now and for the last year were working beautifully and buy the way still are...Personally I didn't notice how much better the 12" shocks handled because I never got to ride the stock 12" with the factory fluid...I let my friend Karl (KDietz) ride my bike after I overhauled the front forks with the progressive system, when he returned he was in shock as to how well the bike rode with the 12" shocks on...
Fast forward a week or so he had asked for some help with his front end putting in a Raceteck system so we swapped bikes so I could get started before he arrived the following day...The evenning we swapped he had his lovely wife on the back and when he returned he commented on how much nicer the bike rode over his 13"...My reply is I dont understand Ifigured the stock 13" would out perform the stock 12" alltogether...All I did was change the fluid out to something heavier...
After getting a bit more educated on the loss of travel that 12" over the 13" had I wanted to put the 13" back on, however I didn't want the 13" stock riding height...So I ordered a 1" lowering kit form TJ Products which keep the shock angle the same as stock...I proceeded to install it right before the ride in the Rockies along with the group...I was riding alone and had the bags full and had my leathers in the touring pack and there was many times I was bottoming out...Ok I need more air...so I took it from 16# to 20# then up to 22# and still bottomed out...Now this was with just me on it...I felt like it was the dampening system in the shock that needed to be slowed down and corrected very much like I had done on the 12" unknowingly...
I when I got back I talked with Karl about the experience I had with the 13" shocks and to my surprise he was getting the same results...
Went to the indy shop where I got the 1st -7.5 wt quart and they didn't have any...Called Pipers Performance here locally and found that they had some 7.5/10wt synthetic...SWEET Just what I was looking for...Went and picked his brain on what we were doing and he confirmed that we were on the right path to improvement on the stock shocks...Personally I value what Cliff has to say due to the fact that he was Racetechs #1 shop on the west coast for like 10-12 years straight...I figure that in itself speaks for alot as far as a suspension guru...
So Saturday after we (Karl and I) each bought a quart we proceed to install it in our shocks at my house...
We started with his bike since he had 1 side of exhaust and mine had 2...1 shock would be cooler then the other on his bike...We removed the shocks and when they were on the bench we removed the quick release connection for the air line...Now the Rocking began with the shock in hand and this proved to be as slow as I rememebered it the last time I did it...(There has to be a faster more productive method)...There was if I had the fittings so I dug around while he was rocking the shock drainning the fluid slowwwly...Bingo, I found a 1/8" mpt fitting with a barb that would now attach to my mighty vac line...
Oh man, was this to prove to be a great idea...just sucked the fluid right out like nobodys buissness...
(enclosed a pic...)
After the fluid was evactated we proceed to install the new fluid in the shocks with a turkey baster...worked last time and contuned to work this time...
(enclosed a pic...)
After the fluid was at the top of the hole where the quick release fitting was removed, I applied my weight on top of it to allow it to burp and release some of the excess fluid...Very little came out...Ok now on to the next...
repeated process 3 other times because we did mine after we did his...
After the install we went for a ride...I had put 15# of air in the system and found the ride to be extremely firm, firm enough to indicate the ride quality in the lower part of my back...I released half the volume of air that was in the shocks (8#) and when I did the ride improved but still not to my liking...still a bit firmer then what I had hoped for...
Sunday My wife and I and Karl and His wife went for a ride and still with the 8# of air volume in from the day before we both rode around the DFW area and when it did bottom out it wasn't the abrupt bottoming out I had experienced but a much softer more controlled bottoming out which sat alot better with me...The ride did improve with the 2 of us on there...naturally this got me to thinking some more about the shocks and what could be done to improve the ride somemore...
Sunday and Monday I thought about this...
What I came up with was I figured I needed to remove a bit more fluid from the shocks, but I needed to remove the fluid equally...So off to ACE hardware store for some fittings...
I got 2 ea. 1/8" mpt fitting with a 1/4" compressing fitting on the other end
I got 2 ea. 1/8" mpt fitting with a 3/16" barb that would slip into the hose...
1/4 od hose 4' long
Now the mpt fitting with the barb would be attached to thehose and cap of a container while at the other end of the hose was the 1/8" mpt fitting with the compression fitting. This would be screwed into the 1/8" mpt threads where the quick release fitting would go...
Then after both adapters were made, the moment of truth became more pervailent...
I jacked the bike up and removed the quick release fitting, but I left the hose hooked up while I removed the fitting and installed the lasted creation of mine...After both were installed and snugged up, I lowered the bike...With just the weight of the bike there was fluid being pushed out into the lines and container...Then very gingerly I climbed atop the bike and sat on the seat and released yet more fluid...After I was convinced there was no more to flow out with me on it...I climbed off and removed the fittings and reinstalled the quick release fittings...
Note when I finished the volume of fluid were now equal in both shocks and I felt I knew this because the fluid in the containers were not of equal amounts...I believe there was air and some loss of fluid in the beginning which wasn't equalized...I feel that they are equal now because both valves were open and weight was applied, equally applied and uniformity was addressed...
(Enclosed a pic)
I went for a ride with 8# of air in the shocks and let me tell you what a night and day difference I just made was...
The ride was so much better then it was before...I still felt that there was a bit much air in the shocks so I released 3# and now it rides like I had hoped it would with just me on it...No bottoming out and a ride that personally I feel should be what Showa should be shooting for...
What I did with the shocks Monday with my weight applied on them I feel was I set the shocks up for me and my weight...Kinda fine tunning them and not mass producing them with a formula that would work for everybody...
Personally this should work with anyone, anysize and have a shock that is set up for him or her and not have to worry about the lack of ride the stock shocks gave but how they could be improved on and how they should feel...
Food for thought
I'm not saying this would/will work for everyone but it certainnly can't hurt and for the price of a quart and some of your time one morning it's well worth a shot before you go out and spent big $$$ on something else you may not need...
Also while we're on the subject for those of you that have access to the DB system that was such a nightmare for some...The DB system can be incorperated with the stock air shocks so you can adjust on the fly...
Thats yet another story possible to come...
I am no means a shock expert but I believe I know what I like in the way of a quaility ride...
1 yr. ago I purchased a set of 12" shocks from a member and when they arrived there was fluid all over the box in which they were shipped in...I seemed to remember somewhere that the fluid could be changed or at least put back in, so a search was on the way to re-confirm this...BINGO, I found what I was hoping to find along with the stock shocks are a POS and just go get a new set of Progressives...
Well as cheap as I am, I wanted to try and re-use the stock set first before I invested in a newer set due to the fact that I liked the idea of having the air to adjust the ride...
So I had the shocks in hand and found some 7.5 wt shock fluid from one of the local indy shops and and began my little adventure...First I had to drain all the old fluid out and this I found to be the most time consumming process out of the entire ordeal...I had to create a rocking motion with the shock to get the fluid out...I removed the fluid and measured it and to my amazement, the amount of fluid that I had measured wasn't the same amount that was called for on the search I did...OK no big deal it was close and there was fluid all over the box so this would account for the absence of fluid in the shock that I picked up for the experiment...
After both shocks were full and I had them on the bike and bolted in I tried to pump some air in them but had a leak so as I was fumbling with them I had some of the fluid running out all over me and the shock...never gave it a bit of thought about this...Just alittle to much...
The 12" were on now and for the last year were working beautifully and buy the way still are...Personally I didn't notice how much better the 12" shocks handled because I never got to ride the stock 12" with the factory fluid...I let my friend Karl (KDietz) ride my bike after I overhauled the front forks with the progressive system, when he returned he was in shock as to how well the bike rode with the 12" shocks on...
Fast forward a week or so he had asked for some help with his front end putting in a Raceteck system so we swapped bikes so I could get started before he arrived the following day...The evenning we swapped he had his lovely wife on the back and when he returned he commented on how much nicer the bike rode over his 13"...My reply is I dont understand Ifigured the stock 13" would out perform the stock 12" alltogether...All I did was change the fluid out to something heavier...
After getting a bit more educated on the loss of travel that 12" over the 13" had I wanted to put the 13" back on, however I didn't want the 13" stock riding height...So I ordered a 1" lowering kit form TJ Products which keep the shock angle the same as stock...I proceeded to install it right before the ride in the Rockies along with the group...I was riding alone and had the bags full and had my leathers in the touring pack and there was many times I was bottoming out...Ok I need more air...so I took it from 16# to 20# then up to 22# and still bottomed out...Now this was with just me on it...I felt like it was the dampening system in the shock that needed to be slowed down and corrected very much like I had done on the 12" unknowingly...
I when I got back I talked with Karl about the experience I had with the 13" shocks and to my surprise he was getting the same results...
Went to the indy shop where I got the 1st -7.5 wt quart and they didn't have any...Called Pipers Performance here locally and found that they had some 7.5/10wt synthetic...SWEET Just what I was looking for...Went and picked his brain on what we were doing and he confirmed that we were on the right path to improvement on the stock shocks...Personally I value what Cliff has to say due to the fact that he was Racetechs #1 shop on the west coast for like 10-12 years straight...I figure that in itself speaks for alot as far as a suspension guru...
So Saturday after we (Karl and I) each bought a quart we proceed to install it in our shocks at my house...
We started with his bike since he had 1 side of exhaust and mine had 2...1 shock would be cooler then the other on his bike...We removed the shocks and when they were on the bench we removed the quick release connection for the air line...Now the Rocking began with the shock in hand and this proved to be as slow as I rememebered it the last time I did it...(There has to be a faster more productive method)...There was if I had the fittings so I dug around while he was rocking the shock drainning the fluid slowwwly...Bingo, I found a 1/8" mpt fitting with a barb that would now attach to my mighty vac line...
Oh man, was this to prove to be a great idea...just sucked the fluid right out like nobodys buissness...
(enclosed a pic...)
After the fluid was evactated we proceed to install the new fluid in the shocks with a turkey baster...worked last time and contuned to work this time...
(enclosed a pic...)
After the fluid was at the top of the hole where the quick release fitting was removed, I applied my weight on top of it to allow it to burp and release some of the excess fluid...Very little came out...Ok now on to the next...
repeated process 3 other times because we did mine after we did his...
After the install we went for a ride...I had put 15# of air in the system and found the ride to be extremely firm, firm enough to indicate the ride quality in the lower part of my back...I released half the volume of air that was in the shocks (8#) and when I did the ride improved but still not to my liking...still a bit firmer then what I had hoped for...
Sunday My wife and I and Karl and His wife went for a ride and still with the 8# of air volume in from the day before we both rode around the DFW area and when it did bottom out it wasn't the abrupt bottoming out I had experienced but a much softer more controlled bottoming out which sat alot better with me...The ride did improve with the 2 of us on there...naturally this got me to thinking some more about the shocks and what could be done to improve the ride somemore...
Sunday and Monday I thought about this...
What I came up with was I figured I needed to remove a bit more fluid from the shocks, but I needed to remove the fluid equally...So off to ACE hardware store for some fittings...
I got 2 ea. 1/8" mpt fitting with a 1/4" compressing fitting on the other end
I got 2 ea. 1/8" mpt fitting with a 3/16" barb that would slip into the hose...
1/4 od hose 4' long
Now the mpt fitting with the barb would be attached to thehose and cap of a container while at the other end of the hose was the 1/8" mpt fitting with the compression fitting. This would be screwed into the 1/8" mpt threads where the quick release fitting would go...
Then after both adapters were made, the moment of truth became more pervailent...
I jacked the bike up and removed the quick release fitting, but I left the hose hooked up while I removed the fitting and installed the lasted creation of mine...After both were installed and snugged up, I lowered the bike...With just the weight of the bike there was fluid being pushed out into the lines and container...Then very gingerly I climbed atop the bike and sat on the seat and released yet more fluid...After I was convinced there was no more to flow out with me on it...I climbed off and removed the fittings and reinstalled the quick release fittings...
Note when I finished the volume of fluid were now equal in both shocks and I felt I knew this because the fluid in the containers were not of equal amounts...I believe there was air and some loss of fluid in the beginning which wasn't equalized...I feel that they are equal now because both valves were open and weight was applied, equally applied and uniformity was addressed...
(Enclosed a pic)
I went for a ride with 8# of air in the shocks and let me tell you what a night and day difference I just made was...
The ride was so much better then it was before...I still felt that there was a bit much air in the shocks so I released 3# and now it rides like I had hoped it would with just me on it...No bottoming out and a ride that personally I feel should be what Showa should be shooting for...
What I did with the shocks Monday with my weight applied on them I feel was I set the shocks up for me and my weight...Kinda fine tunning them and not mass producing them with a formula that would work for everybody...
Personally this should work with anyone, anysize and have a shock that is set up for him or her and not have to worry about the lack of ride the stock shocks gave but how they could be improved on and how they should feel...
Food for thought
I'm not saying this would/will work for everyone but it certainnly can't hurt and for the price of a quart and some of your time one morning it's well worth a shot before you go out and spent big $$$ on something else you may not need...
Also while we're on the subject for those of you that have access to the DB system that was such a nightmare for some...The DB system can be incorperated with the stock air shocks so you can adjust on the fly...
Thats yet another story possible to come...
1 - 13 of 41 Posts
TxChop...
Good thought there, I hadn't thought about it like that but you are absolutly right...
RK05...
I'll get back to you this evenning as to what brand it was
Good thought there, I hadn't thought about it like that but you are absolutly right...
RK05...
I'll get back to you this evenning as to what brand it was
RK05,
Torco RSF 100% synthetic racing shock oil Medium wt.
Posse ride...Pm to you
Torco RSF 100% synthetic racing shock oil Medium wt.
Posse ride...Pm to you
the same proceedure was basically used in the 12" shocks just a different approch this time to achieve the same results...
paul
paul
Update...
One of the members asked for a update thru a PM and I advised him on my impressions as todate...
1st is I'm enjoying the ride so much more
I'm running around the 3-5 lbs of air for me only...
and when the wife is on the ride is so much better...
with her and I on I've found that 12-13lbs of air works really well for us...
She doesn't ride much with me, but is starting to ride more so then she ever thought she would...
Hopefully in the near future we'll have the bags and touring pack full with her and I on it and I can forward somemore positive reviews...but as far now...
This is a mod that has cost me $20 for the fluid and some of my time to accomplish and personally speaking I could not be happier...
One more thing...I haven't totally eliminated the bottoming out...I have however gotten controll of the harsh bottoming out that would otherwise be jarring up through the spine...the bottoming out is more so when I go over a serious mismatch in the road condition (rail road tracks) or a serious pot hole...then I get some...not that hard, more of a controlled bottoming out with the shock only, I'm not experiencing the tire rub that I did when I was in the Mtns...
yet one more time...
I am still running the TJ 1" lowering kit on my bike...
paul
One of the members asked for a update thru a PM and I advised him on my impressions as todate...
1st is I'm enjoying the ride so much more
I'm running around the 3-5 lbs of air for me only...
and when the wife is on the ride is so much better...
with her and I on I've found that 12-13lbs of air works really well for us...
She doesn't ride much with me, but is starting to ride more so then she ever thought she would...
Hopefully in the near future we'll have the bags and touring pack full with her and I on it and I can forward somemore positive reviews...but as far now...
This is a mod that has cost me $20 for the fluid and some of my time to accomplish and personally speaking I could not be happier...
One more thing...I haven't totally eliminated the bottoming out...I have however gotten controll of the harsh bottoming out that would otherwise be jarring up through the spine...the bottoming out is more so when I go over a serious mismatch in the road condition (rail road tracks) or a serious pot hole...then I get some...not that hard, more of a controlled bottoming out with the shock only, I'm not experiencing the tire rub that I did when I was in the Mtns...
yet one more time...
I am still running the TJ 1" lowering kit on my bike...
paul
Roadking,
yes the 12" are what comes standard on the flhx...
if you notice in the beginning I was working with the 12" shocks...
FYI...You don't want to remove any fluid...You want to top it off and then adjust for your weight allowing the excess fluid to be removed...
removing what fluid you have in there isn't going to be enough...
remove all the fluid and then put some new fluid in there and top it off, then sit on it and adjust for you, and you should be set...
Note also that the 12" can handle up to 50 lbs of air...per H-D...
paul
yes the 12" are what comes standard on the flhx...
if you notice in the beginning I was working with the 12" shocks...
FYI...You don't want to remove any fluid...You want to top it off and then adjust for your weight allowing the excess fluid to be removed...
removing what fluid you have in there isn't going to be enough...
remove all the fluid and then put some new fluid in there and top it off, then sit on it and adjust for you, and you should be set...
Note also that the 12" can handle up to 50 lbs of air...per H-D...
paul
Stan,
from what I understand the factory has requested showa to put 5wt oil in the shocks...
If you have some serious hard shocks they could very well be over filled or have no fluid in them at all or no air in them at all...
1) Try putting some air in them and if that doesn't help...
2) Adjust the shocks as described by removing the air quick disconnect and sit upon the bike and see if any fluid expells...
3) if the above 2 don't help then remove one shock at a time and see if it has any fluid in it...You should be able to shack it and hear it however this is a bit deciving since you can hear the fluid but you have no idea how much fluid is in there...
FWIW...Try and desiffer weather you hear alot a sloshing or a large amount of fluid in a confined reservior in heart of the shock, this will help you determine whether you need to add some...
4) just to be on the safe side and before you go out and spend a small fortune on the new shocks invest in a qt. of shock oil and remove the old and put the new in...Peace of mind to know that everything is cousher and see if that improves the ride and then if not you might want to bit the bullet and buy the other shocks...
FWIW...Bitubo's are getting alot of serious possitive reviews on the CVO forums...
triaxion dynamics is carrying the shocks imported from Itally for the racing teams and have decided to get in to touring bikes and are offering a what seems to be a great answer to the rear end of the ride...
from what I understand the factory has requested showa to put 5wt oil in the shocks...
If you have some serious hard shocks they could very well be over filled or have no fluid in them at all or no air in them at all...
1) Try putting some air in them and if that doesn't help...
2) Adjust the shocks as described by removing the air quick disconnect and sit upon the bike and see if any fluid expells...
3) if the above 2 don't help then remove one shock at a time and see if it has any fluid in it...You should be able to shack it and hear it however this is a bit deciving since you can hear the fluid but you have no idea how much fluid is in there...
FWIW...Try and desiffer weather you hear alot a sloshing or a large amount of fluid in a confined reservior in heart of the shock, this will help you determine whether you need to add some...
4) just to be on the safe side and before you go out and spend a small fortune on the new shocks invest in a qt. of shock oil and remove the old and put the new in...Peace of mind to know that everything is cousher and see if that improves the ride and then if not you might want to bit the bullet and buy the other shocks...
FWIW...Bitubo's are getting alot of serious possitive reviews on the CVO forums...
triaxion dynamics is carrying the shocks imported from Itally for the racing teams and have decided to get in to touring bikes and are offering a what seems to be a great answer to the rear end of the ride...
cts...keep us posted
Dog...Yes this mod will work with any of the stock shocks that require air...
I have the standard 13" shocks on mine with the lowering kit and have made a world of improvement to the oval ride...
heck just this weekend I didn't put any air in the system and was probably running "0" lbs of air and perhaps just a residuale of air let in the system and the wife went for a ride with me without putting any air in the system and surprisingly had a really decent ride...Go figure... 0- air
I guess another way of looking at this was its kinda like a shock without the air **** a progressive shock with just the fluid and oil but with the riders weight adjusting (setting) the shocks character for the individual themselves...
Yea know if it doesn't work your only out $20 for the fluid and if it works you've saved your self $400...kinda a no brainer...
another way to drain the luid was to rotate the shocks 180* on the bike and sit and then stand on it while dispensing the fluid out the air fitting attachment...put sometype of hose up to it or it will make a mess...
using the same hose and container pout of allow gravity to put the fluid back in...
keep us posted on what you've done and let us know what your thoughts are...
paul
Dog...Yes this mod will work with any of the stock shocks that require air...
I have the standard 13" shocks on mine with the lowering kit and have made a world of improvement to the oval ride...
heck just this weekend I didn't put any air in the system and was probably running "0" lbs of air and perhaps just a residuale of air let in the system and the wife went for a ride with me without putting any air in the system and surprisingly had a really decent ride...Go figure... 0- air
I guess another way of looking at this was its kinda like a shock without the air **** a progressive shock with just the fluid and oil but with the riders weight adjusting (setting) the shocks character for the individual themselves...
Yea know if it doesn't work your only out $20 for the fluid and if it works you've saved your self $400...kinda a no brainer...
another way to drain the luid was to rotate the shocks 180* on the bike and sit and then stand on it while dispensing the fluid out the air fitting attachment...put sometype of hose up to it or it will make a mess...
using the same hose and container pout of allow gravity to put the fluid back in...
keep us posted on what you've done and let us know what your thoughts are...
paul
hdmarsh
try 0" lbs of air and see what the ride is like...
I'm presently running 0"lbs with the wife and I on and it rides pretty decent
That is as long as I'm on the hwy and not the back roads
However we did the back roads and where the roads weren't maintained well the ride got disappointing but not to the point of dissatisfaction with 0"lbs of air
I'm going to be doing the Hill country ride with a group of friends this weekend and I'll put the normal 13 lbs of air and see how Ma Ma feels and then with 0 lbs of air and see how she feels and let her make the final dissiccion and go from there...
But all in all I'm glad to hear those of you that are and have tried the improvement are pleased with the results...
Ride safe
paul
try 0" lbs of air and see what the ride is like...
I'm presently running 0"lbs with the wife and I on and it rides pretty decent
That is as long as I'm on the hwy and not the back roads
However we did the back roads and where the roads weren't maintained well the ride got disappointing but not to the point of dissatisfaction with 0"lbs of air
I'm going to be doing the Hill country ride with a group of friends this weekend and I'll put the normal 13 lbs of air and see how Ma Ma feels and then with 0 lbs of air and see how she feels and let her make the final dissiccion and go from there...
But all in all I'm glad to hear those of you that are and have tried the improvement are pleased with the results...
Ride safe
paul
Nope...
No
None what so ever...
paul
No
None what so ever...
paul
1 - 13 of 41 Posts
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