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My '01 Ultra was trouble free.........for about two years. Then it started acting up, and NOTHING seemed to fix it. I tried PC, PCII, PCIIIr, TFI/DFO, some kind of Terry Component O2feedback processor gizmo, and the SERT for M&M. I had two dealerships dyno it, and one independant shop where the dyno guy was very familiar with the M&M and it's quirkyness. And while the bike ran great rolling out the dyno room door, shortly thereafter it would start acting up again.

So I went with the Zippers conversion kit. After a few problems getting the bike set up and dialed in and some turn signal isues, it now runs better than ever. Since installing the Zippers kit, I've had the bike at two dealerships and one independant shop for various work. And they all say that it is one of the nicest running bikes they have ever ridden.

Mark
 

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Terrorists suck!
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58,000 miles on my 99. I replaced the Cam position sensor around 11,000 miles. Nothing since then.
 

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Ghetto Blaster
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My '01 Ultra was trouble free.........for about two years. Then it started acting up, and NOTHING seemed to fix it. I tried PC, PCII, PCIIIr, TFI/DFO, some kind of Terry Component O2feedback processor gizmo, and the SERT for M&M. I had two dealerships dyno it, and one independant shop where the dyno guy was very familiar with the M&M and it's quirkyness. And while the bike ran great rolling out the dyno room door, shortly thereafter it would start acting up again.

So I went with the Zippers conversion kit. After a few problems getting the bike set up and dialed in and some turn signal isues, it now runs better than ever. Since installing the Zippers kit, I've had the bike at two dealerships and one independant shop for various work. And they all say that it is one of the nicest running bikes they have ever ridden.

Mark
All that said 'tho.....How much did all those various fixes end up costing? I think that there are a lot of bikes out there that are fine. Then again, a few that have headaches, those are the ones we hear about the most. For me the biggest reason to change is in the future i want to build the engine and everything i've heard about the MM efi is the limitations when doing builds. In supposed same apples vs apples comparisons the MM has a hard time getting 90 hp/tq whereas carbed bikes routinely do low 100s. My deciding factor was not having to download a map anytime a change was needed. Seems like changing a jet seemed easier & less shitt to go wrong.


Mark, How are the classes going? What's your summer schedule?
Tim
 

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All that said 'tho.....How much did all those various fixes end up costing? I think that there are a lot of bikes out there that are fine. Then again, a few that have headaches, those are the ones we hear about the most. For me the biggest reason to change is in the future i want to build the engine and everything i've heard about the MM efi is the limitations when doing builds. In supposed same apples vs apples comparisons the MM has a hard time getting 90 hp/tq whereas carbed bikes routinely do low 100s. My deciding factor was not having to download a map anytime a change was needed. Seems like changing a jet seemed easier & less shitt to go wrong.


Mark, How are the classes going? What's your summer schedule?
Tim
Tim,

I can't, (or don't) want to calculate how much I have spent on that bike. I do wish I had one if the problem free M&M bikes. Quite a few tuners worked on it too. Cullen at Bartels' HD did okay with the Power Commanders, Danny at Glendale did a GREAT job with the SERT, and so did Gary Betherum up in the Valley. However shortly after each one, the bike started acting up again. It got so I was prediagnosing the problem first by checking for intake and exhaust leaks, checking the voltage on the TPS, and pulling the ECM fuse. For me I WANTED an FI system, so once I got the Zippers kit worked out, it has been a God send.

Thanks for asking about the Police Based Enforcement Style Motorcycle Riding classes I teach out here in Los Angeles. Being on the cover of the Friction Zone, and in Road Runner (even though they misidentified my picture) really helped. But the BIGGEST thing was the addition of training bikes. Riders are always more inclined to learn how to lean a bike way over at slow speed and risk dropping it when it's not THEIR bike. And at $4.00 a gallon they like using my gas too LOL!!!!.

Tim, I just sent you a PM, check it out. And if you ever take a ride to the beach, stop by and say hello. Folks are always welcome.

Mark
 

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EvilMonger
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Tim,

Thanks a lot for all the great information!

Yes my bike does have cruise control, will it still work after doing the conversion to a carb?

I have a service manual for my bike and will be having a good look at it per your suggestions.
Yes your cruise can work. You need a carb with a cruise wheel. The CV40, some CV44s, I think even S&S has a cruise compatible carb. I think there is a kit out there for the Mikuni?

I have a woods CV40 (41.5 now I think) with a cruise wheel on my once M&M EFI bike.
 

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Here are a couple of posts that might help you along the way to a carb solution....
I would DEFINITELY not go the route of $1,900.00 to an aftermarket EFI system.....oh man no one will work on your bike....and no one will have a clue of what's going on....you would be an island to yourself.....with OUT any shade trees....if you think PALM TREES provide little shade....lol wait until your on a island where the PALM TREES have no leaves.....lol Mr. "Shade Tree Mechanic" I can see it now....ummm bike is acting up going down the highway.....you have to pull over......4 other guys riding with you.....and they say "what's up" and you say....something is acting up.....and it's my aftermarket EFI system....laughing AFTER they strangle you.....lol you undoubtedly be on the back of one of their bikes riding too close for comfort....and all of it could have been avoided by.....yep....you got it....lol....going to carb....lol.....laughing.....

Here are some threads on folks converting to carb from MM EFI......perhaps this will begin to allow you to read some thoughts on what others are experiencing:

http://groups.msn.com/HarleyTechTalk/tc88fathead.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=123602&LastModified=4675407270931430704

http://groups.msn.com/HarleyTechTalk/tc88fathead.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=651455&LastModified=4675519838767035204

http://groups.msn.com/harleytechtalk/tc88fathead.msnw?action=get_message&ID_Message=1357023&ShowDelete=0&CDir=-2


Regards,

"Classic"

lol "Dr" Classic....lol.....very very funny.....whatchu talkin about willussss!!!!!! lol
 

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Here are a couple of posts that might help you along the way to a carb solution....
I would DEFINITELY not go the route of $1,900.00 to an aftermarket EFI system.....oh man no one will work on your bike....and no one will have a clue of what's going on....you would be an island to yourself.....with OUT any shade trees....if you think PALM TREES provide little shade....lol wait until your on a island where the PALM TREES have no leaves.....lol Mr. "Shade Tree Mechanic" I can see it now....ummm bike is acting up going down the highway.....you have to pull over......4 other guys riding with you.....and they say "what's up" and you say....something is acting up.....and it's my aftermarket EFI system....laughing AFTER they strangle you.....lol you undoubtedly be on the back of one of their bikes riding too close for comfort....and all of it could have been avoided by.....yep....you got it....lol....going to carb....lol.....laughing.....

Here are some threads on folks converting to carb from MM EFI......perhaps this will begin to allow you to read some thoughts on what others are experiencing:

http://groups.msn.com/HarleyTechTalk/tc88fathead.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=123602&LastModified=4675407270931430704

http://groups.msn.com/HarleyTechTalk/tc88fathead.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=651455&LastModified=4675519838767035204

http://groups.msn.com/harleytechtalk/tc88fathead.msnw?action=get_message&ID_Message=1357023&ShowDelete=0&CDir=-2


Regards,

"Classic"

lol "Dr" Classic....lol.....very very funny.....whatchu talkin about willussss!!!!!! lol
Classic has a point that should be considered for sure. Your "Average Joe Mechanic" at a dealership probably will whine when faced with it because it's not OEM. Most of those guys don't want to touch anything that's not HD plug n play.

However I have found that the system is NOT that difficult to diagnose. It's either the ECM (with auto-tune), or the Throttle Body, because those are the only two things that get swapped out. And for me, neither of those things ever crapped out on me. As for tuning, well once you learn the software, it's not that difficult either. And while Zippers support can be spotty at times, so can HD dealerships. Luckily I have NOT had a Zippers related breakdown on the road (Don't ask me about OEM stators though,....LOL!!!). I'm not saying that it won't happen, because like anything, it's possible. I will say that while the Zippers kit has never left me by the side of the road, the M&M did. I went with Zippers because I like to tinker, and change components out from time to time.

That being said, if you don't feel comfortable going with the Zippers kit, than a carb is for you. And it is something easiest enough for the "Less Than Average Joe Mechanic" can work on, "Turn screw one way to enrichen, the other way to lean out".

Mark
 

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Classic may be right about no one wanting to work on your aftermarkey EFI BUT, they also aren't qualified to work on MM/EFI either. As a MM owner, you must become self taught, the dealer mechnics except for the extremely rare exception don't have a clue...
I switched my MM for carb after a couple of years of fighting it(yes, I got a CV44 W/cruise arm and the cruise worked great!). Best thing I ever did to me 01!
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
GOOD NEWS TODAY: I decided to clean all the connector plug contacts on my ECU and sensor plugs located under the right side cover with a good electronics contact cleaner.

When I pulled the 35 pin plug off the ECU and looked at the contacts under some good light I could see some white oxidation/corrosion on some of the pins so I sprayed them good with the cleaner and swabbed them with Q-tips.

While I was doing this work I pulled the 5 & 15 amp ECU fuses so I would get a good ECU reset when I was done. I pulled apart and cleaned every plug I could find under the right side cover with the contact cleaner.

I also cleaned the contacts on the ECU and fuel pump relays under the seat, I saw some light corrosion/oxidation on these relay blade connectors too.

Put it all back together and went on a 175 mile ride today. Not one hiccup, stumble or dying at idle the whole day. Bike ran as good as I ever remember, the idle was also smoother than I ever remember it being.

What does this all mean? I'm not exactly sure but I know this, my MM EFI system worked fine for 7 years before something went wrong so it is easy to conclude that it can be fixed to work fine again.

Could it be that those of us with problems are overlooking the obvious i.e. just keeping the connector plug contacts clean?

Going forward I will be cleaning all these contacts like I did today at least once a year provided the MM system keeps working for me otherwise it's carbville.
 

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To all those who posted to this thread. is it possible to convert the MM EFI to the later type. or is it to expensive to bother with. the reason I ask is that I have a 2001 FLHTCUI that has to have to whole wiring harness replaced due to fire and was wondering while doing all this if I should convert this thing to a more reliable setup or just keep it the way it is. My friend just bought this one so I have no idea on its history.

Thanks,
 

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I got one trouble free

1999 FLHTPI. 68750 miles. I like that I can hear the system pressure up when the power is turned on vs newer bikes being nearly silent.

This is about the engine only right and not the poor handling?
 

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My MM bike may have an eratic idle when cold, but it has never failed to idle. It may idle at 800 rpms or 1100, but it does idle. The important thing is not to touch the throttle for two or three mins. Let it do it's own thing for a bit. Then its all good.
 

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I was told by techs at the dealership that many MM efi problems were caused by moisture entering the ecm connections. They said many problems were solved by simply cleaning the contacts (pins) and coating with dielectric compound. One of the parts guys at the local dealer has a 2000 flhtcui that he washes constantly and has problems. The techs always kid him that if he rode it dirty he wouldn't get moisture in the connectors and have to clean them.
 

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To all those who posted to this thread. is it possible to convert the MM EFI to the later type. or is it to expensive to bother with. the reason I ask is that I have a 2001 FLHTCUI that has to have to whole wiring harness replaced due to fire and was wondering while doing all this if I should convert this thing to a more reliable setup or just keep it the way it is. My friend just bought this one so I have no idea on its history.

Thanks,
Yes. The options are:

Zippers Magnetti-Marelli conversion kit, replacement ECM and Throttle Body and tuning software.
www.zippersperformance.com

Thayer Fuel Injection conversion kit using a conversion FI harness, OEM HD ECM and a modified gas tank and throttle body. You may also need an SERT or PC system to tune it.
http://vtwinfuelinjection.com/index.htm

Then there is the good old carb swap too.
Good luck in whatever you do.

Mark
 

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i had about 19,000 on my 01 roadking when i bout it at the time i did not know that early harleys that crap of an efi system on it, it had no problems except it sounded like a car idleing and it was harder to hop up the engine so i yanked and went with a mik.42 and could be happier i got better gas mileage and it sounds like a harley now.
 

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Twin-cams will never "sound like a harley", since it's the newer-style oil pump that requires a higher idle rather than the old loping sound of the Evo-and-earlier era. Changing your idle to that sound on a Twin Cam can oil-starve your engine and leave you wishing you didn't! I have a '01 MM and did consider the Zippers conversion, following my last upgrade, but any conversion only leaves you with a different EFI system whose parts can also wear out or require adjustment over their lifetime. The only issue I've ever had from stock through Stage IV is having to set the cold idle, and getting rid of the terrible Stage II download, removed at the dealer for $40, and replaced with a PCIII-usb by my machinist. Now I can't say enough good things about my MM. And let's be honest, it's the ECM that Delphi makes, MM is still a major contractor for Harley-Davidson.


2001 FLHRI 95" - SE Hi-Perf. Heads
Henderson Porting - SE Forged Pistons
S&S 570G Cams - BC Gerolomy Modified Throttle Body
SuperTrapp SuperMegs 2-into-1 - PCIII-usb
 

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I've got a 2000 FLHRCI with a 95" kit, PC3 USB, Ness Super Sucker, Rinehart True Duals, Andrews 510G's, etc. and have never had a MM EFI related problem in about 40,000 miles....knock on wood.
 

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I have a 2001 MM EFI bike and am looking for the Screamin Eagle "Green" injectors. These injectors came installed in the Screamin Eagle manifold # 27615-00. I have installed the Horsepower Inc throtle body and want increased fuel. Any help?
 

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I have a 2001 MM EFI bike and am looking for the Screamin Eagle "Green" injectors. These injectors came installed in the Screamin Eagle manifold # 27615-00. I have installed the Horsepower Inc throtle body and want increased fuel. Any help?
Horsepower inc has the injectors that you think you need. You should be good enough for any build with a 4" crank.
 
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