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Discussion Starter #1
I've got a '19 SGS with a 114. All stock other than a set of slip-ons. Purchased last October, got my 1K done in November, then rather slowed down for winter. With the arrival of spring came Covid-19, and again, my riding was limited. I took a nice 400 mile trip 2 weeks ago....bike ran flawlessly. Now up to about 2200 miles. All was good until yesterday. I had to make a short run to go get a headlight for my '01 Fatboy. Ran about 45 minutes up the Interstate, made my pickup at his house, and 10 minutes later was back on the road. Made a quick stop at the HD dealership up where he lives..... just to say 'hello' (which is also where I purchased this bike). Left, ran about 20 minutes on the highway and stopped for lunch. Up to this point, everything had been fine. However, upon leaving the restaurant, the bike ran like junk! I barely made it out of the parking lot, as the 'power' was just gone! Oddly, it didn't feel like it was running on one cylinder. It felt more like the timing got retarded back to about 20 degrees AFTER Dead Center. I made it out of the parking lot, crossed an intersection, and on to an entry ramp back on to the highway. Made my up-shifts from 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.....and the power level felt like I was dragging a bus behind the bike. As I crawled up to about 60 mph, I hit 5th and the bike seemed to be running better...... hit 6th and hit 70mph and at about 2400 RPM it just cruised then next 15 miles or so back home. As I finally got off the interstate and on to a 2-lane road, back to about 40 mph and 4th gear.....again all was seeming OK.... UNTIL....... I had to turn into my neighborhood. This required getting back into 1st gear. And, again, the power was gone! So, I stopped and noted that the INFO screen said I was low on gas. Thinking maybe this could be the problem, I turned around and got gas. After the fill-up, I started the bike and watched as the fuel gauge went to full. I pulled out of the gas station and again, no power. I stopped on the side of the road, turned the bike off and let it sit....thinking maybe it needed to do some kind or 're-set' with a now-full tank of gas. Restarted, headed home.....and no power! This was all at about 3 pm in the afternoon, and in 97 degree outside temp. I spent the rest of the afternoon trying to talk to someone at any one of the 4 HD dealerships around my area......with little results. At about 9 pm I went out and took another test run, and this time the bike ran fine! And, today, took another run, and again, all good! Never got any 'check engine' light illumination, and it never seemed to 'miss', sputter, or run roughly. It just ran poorly. Again, like it had no timing advance.....or it it were an older carbureted bike, like maybe the choke was stuck on!

Anyway..........that's it! I did talk to a HD dealership today and they indicated that if the bike was running OK now, and if there was no 'check engine light' illumination....then in all likelihood they would end up drawing a blank if they were to look at it now under these circumstances. This leaves me with my nice new bike......and ZERO confidence! So, if anyone has any ideas, or can address any potential 'defaults' that the EFI controller might have experienced as a result of either temperature or low fuel.....I'd like to know that as well. Finding a HD 'Product Specialist' that can 'tech-talk' is next to impossible. Hopefully someone here can help. With that.......many thanks!!

Tom D.
 

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Did it throw any codes?
 

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With your key fob close by, hold the trip reset button in, and turn the ignition switch on. It will cycle through the systems, with a y or n after it. It will rescroll through them, hold the reset button on a system with a y behind it, and it will give you the codes.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
OK, I'll give that a try. For the record, I rode the bike yesterday, and attempted to duplicate the same ride pattern where I'd had the problem. The bike performed flawlessly! I'm not sure whether to be good or bad with that! Glad it's working fine, but would be nice to have been able to duplicate the problem so I could at least be able to 'demo' the failure to a HD dealer. Oh well........ I have a feeling this will just get chalked off to being a 'glitch'....hopefully never to return again!! I'll post my results of the fault code test later this evening. Thanks Slingshot!

Tom D.
 

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If the check money light was on, it has codes.

Your symptoms are classic for sumping. What is the build date on the bike?

Don't ride it with the motor laboring like that, it can kill the motor. And those slip ons are enough to void the power train warranty if someone at the dealership wants to be a dick.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
OK, checked for faults codes. Aside from some for the Radio, a function of my having added an amp and changed speakers, no other fault codes were present. Again, nor was any 'Check Engine Light' (check money light) illuminated.

This 'sumping' thing; my bike is a '19, and it's had some kind of 'vent' installed, or at least something was checked and found to be present. This was in the primary case around the starter? Honestly, while I can pretty much tear apart a twin-cam motor and consider myself to be damn near an 'expert' when it comes to carburetors..... I feel like a complete dolt around this M-8 motor. I mean I 'get' the basics.....and I have a pretty good understanding of 'closed-loop' EFI as related to automotive applications. So, when it comes to thing like having sensors affect fuel delivery, going in to 'limp-in', or some kind of 'default' programming, I know that happens at some level on the HD systems. But, there seems to be little detail available as to just what some of these issues are......and what to do about them. I know the Motor Company has been under the gun from the Fed regarding some of the performance related modification available through dealers. Hence the prior 'Race' tuner is now a more limited device and referred to as a 'Street' tuner.

Anyway...... I don't know if the bike is 'sumping' or not. I know my old Brit-Bikes would 'sump'....but once running they'd suck up the oil in the crank-case, return it to the oil tank, and all would be good. I believe I even had an old Dyna with a TC motor that, after sitting, had somewhat of a similar condition. But, again, I was running this bike at highway speeds for nearly an hour.....and then stopped, parked, at lunch for maybe 30 minutes.....and came out and it just went flat on me (power wise that is!!). And, I also managed to get it up to about 70 on the interstate for another 15 miles or so before slowing down to about 40 for another 4 miles...then turning into my neighborhood and finding it had gone 'flat' again. Then there's this 'Low Fuel' warning on the radio screen! When I filled up the bike took 5.1 gallons. With a 6 gallon tank, I'm thinking it was NOT 'completely' out of gas! Low, yes! But, so low that this could have been the cause? And remember that I rode basically 20 miles from start of the problem (at the restaurant parking lot) to return of the problem (back in my neighborhood), and then again after I went and got gas about a mile from my home. AND.... to complicate it even more....while the problem was present when I left the gas station, stopped, restarted, and had it again as I drove home......it was completely gone when I test drove the bike 4 or 5 hours later.....and has not returned since!

While I'm open to the 'sumping' issue being the problem, my gut is still telling me this is some kind of electrical malfunction somewhere in the brain of the bike! OR.....the ECM was just doing what it thought it was supposed to do based on some kind of signal that perhaps it was getting from either a temp sensor and fuel sensor, or maybe even an O2 sensor. All I know is the there is no 'Check Engine' light, now I think I can say with some assurance that there are no fault codes.....and...the bike is now operating 'normally' from a generally riding perspective.

SO..........now what? Just keep riding it..which is what the Service Advisor at the HD dealership is telling me to do? Quit riding it until I can get it looked it.....in about a month (so it can just sit for a month, right!)? Honestly, I'm pretty frustrated with this! For nearly $30K for a frickin' motorcycle..... I rather expected a better response from the dealers I called. But, after 'trying' to talk to now 5 different dealerships.....and basically getting no where..... AND, with my selling dealer telling me that unless it's acting up they really don't see any point in my bringing it in....... I guess I just ride it and hope it doesn't blow up. And......if it does.....well, that's what the warranty is for! BTW

Slip-ons? .... What 'slip-ons'? No 'slip-ons' on my bike! (now!!).

Tom D.
 

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Slip-ons = aftermarket mufflers.
 

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Again, what is the build date? Month and year.

Next time it goes "flat" Run it back to the barn and shut it down without letting it idle for any length of time. Level it up some, jack or kickstand on a block, then pull the crank sensor out of the case. Catch and measure the oil that drains out. Bout 2-3 oz is what you want to see. You get 5-6 or more oz's and it needs a oil pump plus and look see for any additional damage done.

The vent tube has nothing to do with your issue, that was to fix a different engineering defect.
 

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2many-was anything electrical added to the bike that is not stock or OEM? I read something about an amp you may have added. Not sure if this will help but years ago I installed a rebuilt wiper motor on a truck and shortly after the install the truck would not run right, backfired, stalled etc. you get the idea. There was a major electrical issue with that motor, exchanged it and as was well. My brother is an electrician and when he troubleshoots something he'll ask what was the last thing you did? Maybe unplug any electrical add ons and go from there, might just find something out. My 2 cents.
 
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