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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for opinions on using a larger throttle body assembly on the engine build you see below. I wouldn't mind some additional get up and go, but new TBs are pretty expensive: $700 for the size (+3mm) recommended by Horsepower, Inc., and $400 for the SE Pro 50mm TB. Then on top of that is another couple hundred bucks to have it dyno'd again. I'm not sure how much additional HP/TQ can be gained by this change. Is it worth the time, effort and money? And, is it even necessary for my build...maybe the stock TB is just fine for what I've got.
 

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Can be very EXPENSIVE. For my build it is worth it to open the intake up to 54mm and let that thing breath. I will be going to a Zippers 54mm all work to be done by HDWRENCH (Steve) I can not wait to see the difference. I have stock TB right now, but it really needs to breath more.
 

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I was told if you are getting over 100 HP you are going to be pushing the stock TB and stock injectors. But then again I do have an 06 so my injectors are smaller than yours. I picked up the SE 50mm throttle body for mine from ZANOTTI'S for just over 300. But hey if you want a good boost for less Chuck is right on with the 3.37 Gearing..Look that up at ZANOTTI'S also, great prices and excelent service!!!!
 

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I went to a dealer yesterday to get information on the 50 mm SE TB
and found out that it does not work with stock 06 heads. It is made for
the SE HTCC ported heads or the 103 stroker heads. But there is another
higher flowing injector that will fit the 06 TB available. Part # 27709-06.
Does anbody know what the limitations are on the smaller 06 injector? HP?
 

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I think it is going to be interesting to see the build of the CVO 103" that AIM is doing this month. All Kuryakyn Wild Things parts??!! Especially the 57mm throttle body.
 

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The dealer dosent know what he is talking about the TB bolts just fine to the 06 heads. I have reworked 06 heads and bolted the 50mm TB to them. If you compare the new TB to the original the manifold has a larger boar but the flanges are the same. It was however intended to be used with the higher flowing httc heads.
 

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Floyd, I am just going on what they told me. My plan was to use the
50mm TB with reworked 06 heads. Thanks for the good info. The flanges
look the same to me in the picture. Next time I will ask the girl in the
motorclothes dept. she probably knows more. Floyd, will the injectors that
come with the 50mm fit the stock 06 TB?
 

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Yes, it looks like they would. They look almost identical other than the larger manifold. The stock manifold is not really that bad its larger than past years. They uped it to 46mm from I think 44mm in the past. Don't quote me on that! So I suppose if you wanted to just up the injectors you could. It all depends on how much you are looking to get out of the build and what CI you are going with. I just knew that the stock injectors are questionable on anything above 100 hp. I gave it no thought to go to the larger TB. I figured I'm spending alot of money on heads to make them breathe and have a TB/Injectors that are restricting that. It was a no brainer...
 

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According to GRock some time ago the stock injectors on every model except the 06 can handle up to 120 Horsepower.

I have had a theory for quite some time that EFI can handle big bore T/Bodies and this does not effect the bottom end in the power curve the way a carb does, however these bigger sizes do need "expert" tuners to get them to work.

To prove this I have arranged for a very prominent engine builder (ex forum member) to test a 97" engine build and some cam designs for me including Deweys heads and the HP Inc 53mm T/Body. So if you guys are prepared to wait a couple of months I intend to put up the results on the forum.

The build will be:

Deweys Heads
Axtell 97.14" Steel Lined Cylinders
My Cam Designs (3)
HP Inc 53mm T/Body
Pipes will be what are available

I am expecting 120/120 plus with 1 of the cam designs and over 110/110 with the other, the 3rd cam is designed for guys who want a bolt in for baggers.

All the best, Ozzie
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Ozzie In Arabia said:
According to GRock some time ago the stock injectors on every model except the 06 can handle up to 120 Horsepower.

To prove this I have arranged for a very prominent engine builder (ex forum member) to test a 97" engine build and some cam designs for me including Deweys heads and the HP Inc 53mm T/Body. So if you guys are prepared to wait a couple of months I intend to put up the results on the forum.

All the best, Ozzie
you bet I would be interested in your results (gee, I wonder who that builder is??!!).

I started this topic because I've seen other dynos of very similar builds (as far as heads, CR, cam, exhaust) as mine that put out as much as 20% more hp when using a 53mm TB. So, it was my assumption that my limiting factor might be my stock the TB...but according to GRcok maybe it's not?? Now I'm confused why I can't get a little higher numbers.
 

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Bigger throttle bodies will not have the same detrimental effect that too large of a carb will. Mike Roland, designer of the "Wild Things" product line took a production WT 57mm tb installed it on a 95", dyno'd the bike, removed it and installed a 52mm copy of the WT tb (built for this test), dyno'd again and posted the results. You could overlay the graphs, nearly identical. Plus if one decides to increase displacement at a later time, they wont have to invest in another tb.
 

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Hello 05Fatty, I will post my findings on my build but due to the time to make the cams this will be approx 2 months to get to the point of testing.


AND I AM EXCITED!​


All the best Ozzie
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
Hello 05Fatty, I will post my findings on my build but due to the time to make the cams this will be approx 2 months to get to the point of testing.


AND I AM EXCITED!​


All the best Ozzie

Ozzie,

you are going to make more power than I do with my 107". Was seriously considering the same builder you selected, but logistics of case repair etc. came in the way. You gonna have a super build in a few month down the road.
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
According to GRock some time ago the stock injectors on every model except the 06 can handle up to 120 Horsepower.

I have had a theory for quite some time that EFI can handle big bore T/Bodies and this does not effect the bottom end in the power curve the way a carb does, however these bigger sizes do need "expert" tuners to get them to work.

To prove this I have arranged for a very prominent engine builder (ex forum member) to test a 97" engine build and some cam designs for me including Deweys heads and the HP Inc 53mm T/Body. So if you guys are prepared to wait a couple of months I intend to put up the results on the forum.

The build will be:

Deweys Heads
Axtell 97.14" Steel Lined Cylinders
My Cam Designs (3)
HP Inc 53mm T/Body
Pipes will be what are available

I am expecting 120/120 plus with 1 of the cam designs and over 110/110 with the other, the 3rd cam is designed for guys who want a bolt in for baggers.

All the best, Ozzie
120 120 with a 97??? You better be running some serious compression to even come close. The numbers that are starting to be listed on this forum are really getting beyond reason lately. Best of luck.......you are going to need it!

As for the larger TB's, compressor is right.....the larger design does not have the negative effect that a carb will cause due to the fuel being shot directly at the back of the intake valve. BUT.... for those that simply bolt one on to a stock manifold, don't expect much change.
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
According to GRock some time ago the stock injectors on every model except the 06 can handle up to 120 Horsepower.

Ozzie,

My JIMS 120 in motor has a Zipper's 54mm TB but I'm using the stock injectors.

No problems at all and my RK is a real beast. :yes:

If I'm missing something by not having larger injectors it's lost on me. :laugh:
 

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Let me be clear on the injector issue. That 120 number is for stock 88 or 95 with high mods. You can certainly produce more HP with larger cubes, compression, TB, etc. with the stock injectors. With the stock TB you can run about 50 - 55% of the duty cycle before you start having fuel inducted into the wrong cylinder with the single throat TB (depends a lot on the overlap of the cam). If you use a dual runner, you can avoid this as even though the injector may be shooting at a closed valve at the end of the injector cycle, at least the fuel that is puddled will still be swallowed on the next stroke into the correct cylinder. With a larger TB you can run stock injectors to 80 to 85% of the duty cycle. We have successfully tuned 124's with the stock injectors although I like to have them opened up a bit after 117". And again, if you don't have a high overlap cam, then you are usually OK to stick with the stockers. Guys that are using larger injectors on 95's 98's 103's 107's, etc are wasting money and costing themselves throttle response and quick low end running. The 06's now have reduced injector sizing and that, combined with the stock TB, does cause a holdback on the high end peak HP number on high power builds with larger cubes, as you now reach the limits of the duty cycle that much quicker.

G
 

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I will get way above 120 on the HP side dependant on the valve and port size I want to use with my cam designs GRock. I explained this to you privately, and I appreciate the help you have given me with your findings on my cams and believe what you have stated to be correct, the builder doing the testing also agrees with your findings.

This testing and the results of this will give me a direction to go in.............you do this every day so I can not argue the point with you on this, just dont go knocking me for trying.

The 120 HP for injectors was meant for a 88/95 build motor only

My gut feeling/theory has always been that the bigger T/Bodies will support bigger TQ/HP numbers without losing bottom end.............but the setup as a whole must be "tuned" to get it to work.....................biggest reason I went with T/Body AND matching manifold from same manufacturer and several people have advised that Horsepower Inc. T/Bodies, manifolds, and Air cleaners do have a "package" that works.

Now, through an expert engine builder, I will get the answers to many of my ideas/questions/theories and will post them even if they turn out misearable.

If I dont get 120/120, at least I will have a platform to build on and be able to make the changes to get there.................

Just because there are members on here that do this every day for a living doesnt mean that the rest of us can not try to achieve something.

Ozzie
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
If I dont get 120/120, at least I will have a platform to build on and be able to make the changes to get there.................

Just because there are members on here that do this every day for a living doesnt mean that the rest of us can not try to achieve something.

Ozzie
Ozzie, If it can be done, you are the one that can do it. Stay with it and keep us posted.
 

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Certainly will Chuck, and you stay say there Bro.............we are going up to a real sh!thole in the next week............my boss vehicle was taken out by an IED and when they crossdecked (security term for moving a client from one vehicle to another) came under small arm fire the last time they went there, AND they passed through 2 Local Police check points to get there..........................

All the best, Ozzie
 
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