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Is it worth spending $400 for an aftermarket oil pump. I am doing a 95" - stage II mod to a 2003 Road King. I see in the Feuling oil pump product description, with the higher volume and pressure, a 2 horsepower and 3 ft-lb of torque gain over stock. A friend of mine recommended a Baisley Spring that I'm going to install and that should suffice with the stock oil pump with my build. Any ideas or recommendations?
 

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The stock oil pump with the spring will be fine. I don't think you actually get any power gain from the super pump, just more volume and pressure.
 

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Hellbound Train
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HD Dude said:
. I see in the Feuling oil pump product description, with the higher volume and pressure, a 2 horsepower and 3 ft-lb of torque gain over stock.
I see ads all the time for pills that make your dick grow. Don't believe what you read on websites. Stock will do fine.
 

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Addicted to American Iron
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I installed a Feuling Super Pump in my Fatboy build only because I got a great deal on it (1/2 list). On my Ultra I installed a Baisley's Spring and the oil supply per my pressure gauge is what I would call much improved over the stock spring I had in there with the stock pump. Spring is like $12.
 

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XLIII
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Yup, after my build when I had the local shop put in a Baisley spring, they're putting them in most of their builds now. Fine product, big improvement, little $. You can take that $400 and go to gear driven cams instead of chains, if you weren't going that route already.
 

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I went with Feuling pump on my build because at that time some people I know had wet sumping problems. Had I done a moderate 95" etc. I would probably have used a stock oil pump.
 

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goin backwards

In just about every other industry that involves internal combustion they are lowering oil pressure?!. Lighter viscosity and tighter clearences. In a nextel cup engine 10 psi can be worth @5 HP.So you have an engine makin @ 800+ hp. running @ 60 psi.Plate motors at 40 -50 psi.The more you crank up your oil pressure(over what is needed) the more power you steel from the engine.Remember it takes power to turn the pump!A twim cam runs at @ 40 psi plenty good for a largely rollor and ball bearing motor.Internal clearences,orifices determine oil pressure,volume and weight.A roller bearing (if it were pressure fed would hemorrhage oil as compaired to a plain bearing) so thats why they are lubed with inderect mist or drip they do not require as much oil as a plain bearing.Use the recommeded oil!! When building big Hp motors we look at the oil flow in gallons per. minute back to the oil tank. That is the true measure of the oiling system.
A bigger pump sometimes just puts more oil in bypass heating and frothing the oil more than normal.I like to "size" the pressure side of the pump so with the engine at temp. there is no oil in bypass and we have the min. pressure we want.This insures max power.
I have had excellent luck with the stock oiling system on the twin cam.Some people have complaned of lifter noise then used a spring or pump to fix it. This is sometimes the result of to high a valve spring pressure.overcoming the stock lifters.
Don't get caught up with the gimmick of the week!
Big Al
 

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Nice to ride again :-)
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Well first off the Feuling pump can be had for 299.00 anywhere. I also have never bought into the HP/TQ gains said to come along with a Feuling pump. That said I run it and the matching cam plate and their lifters. Before that OEM cam plate/pump with the Baisley spring and never had an oil pressure issue and at 200 degree idle had about 6 PSI.

With the new Feuling set I have 12 PSI at idle, at 200 degrees. I wanted the cam plate for strength and went with the pump because it is balanced and blue printed to the cam plate and I was there.

Each to their own opinion on this one but there are plenty of Feuling pumps running in a lot of builds and they work fine. Are they cost effective, not as cost effective as a Baisley spring, do they work on a 10.5 with TW6HG cams, smooth as silk and helped make an already pretty quite 6HG build a little quieter.

If you want it get it, you are not hurting anything. To me on an air cooled bike as long as oil is moving, and even if some of that extra flow is diverted to the bypass, it is still moving, and moving is cooling.

Again I say to all that have not, hold a Feuling pump next to your stock one and you tell me. And also hold up a Feuling cam plate next to a stock cam plate and tell me. They are quality for sure compared to stock, but also with a cost.
 

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Road Hawg
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MegaGlide said:
Yup, after my build when I had the local shop put in a Baisley spring, they're putting them in most of their builds now. Fine product, big improvement, little $. You can take that $400 and go to gear driven cams instead of chains, if you weren't going that route already.
@gree: Get rid of the chains first
 

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Pump Me up

If pretty machined parts are the reason to replace parts than we need to swap out the motor! It only takes 10 psi to float a plain bearing.A rollor can live with 2 or 3 at an idle !.
I gotta nice bridge in N.Y to sell?
Be sure to wash your pump you may not know wear it's been?
 

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Incredible
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The LMR-002 spring is all you need on any 95" build. Save the money on the pump and go gear drive or some other dodad you have your eyes on for your scoot. A feuling oil pump is big time overkill on a 95" build.
 

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Baisley's Spring!, Baisley's Spring!, Baisley's Spring!, Baisley's Spring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Save your money for some new tensioner shoes unless of course you buy some cam gears instead. (seriously, get rid of the tensioners)
 

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Highly Seasoned Rider!
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Kari the Finn said:
I went with Feuling pump on my build because at that time some people I know had wet sumping problems. Had I done a moderate 95" etc. I would probably have used a stock oil pump.

Your profile shows that you have a Road King. The Road King is an FL with a low oil tank. You shouldn't have had any wet sumping problems with that design. The ones that were wet sumping were the Softails with the high oil tanks.

For the most part, wet sumping has been cured with the addition of the newer oil pump that contains the wavy washer.
 

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HD Dude said:
Is it worth spending $400 for an aftermarket oil pump. I am doing a 95" - stage II mod to a 2003 Road King. I see in the Feuling oil pump product description, with the higher volume and pressure, a 2 horsepower and 3 ft-lb of torque gain over stock. A friend of mine recommended a Baisley Spring that I'm going to install and that should suffice with the stock oil pump with my build. Any ideas or recommendations?
HD Dude: Your going to get alot of different opinions on this from different points of views, and actually you already have.

Some people will tell you its not worth it. Their motivations may be driven by the fact that they couldn't afford it in their own build or didn't have it in their budget. They may also be driven by a common logic that they think the stock oil pump works "good enough" and choose to use a Baisley oil spring. And for some builds I think this is perfectly valid.

The Baisley spring helps the oiling system at idle by keeping the bypass oil circuit closed. This allows more oil pressure and volume to circulate to the rest of the engine where its needed. Many times the stock oil spring due to lack of tolerances in manufacturing will allow oil to bleed into the bypass oil circuit at idle. The Baisley bypass spring is also about 15-30% stiffer(depending on which Baisley spring you get)and it will also increase maximum psi oil pressure while engine is accelerating while riding which will also have its benefits. Cost $20. Cheap improvement that fixed a known weak link.

If your budget does allow for spending another $3-400 dollars, or $600-700 roughly you can still further improve your oil system in your bike by using the Feuling oil pump by itself or with the Feuling camplate combined.

The Feuling pump scavanges better and increases oil pressure over the stock pump something significantly. And combined with the Feuling camplate(which also comes with a matched bypass oil spring designed to work with the Feuling oil pump's improved design)which is designed to improve oil flow to the pinion shaft and other critical parts of the engine. Improved oil flow helps to reduce engine temps in critical areas while offering better lubrication. That helps engine longevity, more so IMO on performance builds. And when we start to modify our stock engines, its always a good idea to improve upon the oiling system to make sure its up to the task. Especially when the engine itself is cooled by air and oil only. Cost $300-$700 depending on where you buy and if you buy the pump, or pump with camplate.

The Feuling pump and camplate are imrpovements, but is it worth it?

The truth in the matter is DO YOU want to spend $3-700 dollars more and have it in your budget? If the answer is yes, then go right on ahead and pick it up, its good insurance for your engine and is an improvement. If not, the Baisley bypass spring sure is a good cheap alternative. But if you decide to go the Feuling route, just remember you can normally get a couple hundred bucks back on the investment by selling off the stock oil pump and camplate on places such as Ebay.
 

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newultraclassic said:
Your profile shows that you have a Road King. The Road King is an FL with a low oil tank. You shouldn't have had any wet sumping problems with that design. The ones that were wet sumping were the Softails with the high oil tanks.

For the most part, wet sumping has been cured with the addition of the newer oil pump that contains the wavy washer.
It has an S&S 124" crate motor that needed cam plate, oil pump and lifters to be completed. When I was putting the project together couple of very knowledgeable people I know ran into wet sumping problems. One of them had an 106" FL. It turned out that he used Feuling pump with S&S reed valve and that was a big no-no. I wanted to avoid those possible problems and got Feuling pump mostly because of increased scavenging volume - extra insurance perhaps. And I left the reed valve out. Judging by the numbers I seem to have oil department under control. I might have been OK with stock pump but this is what I chose.
 

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Did I need the pump and camplate, yes. Why, cause it would have bugged the sh!t out of me if I didn't. I paid well under list on almost every part in or on my motor. I've been on disability since January 6 and have had nothing but time to search the net for 'specials', something most of us don't usually have the time to do because of work and family. Well, the kids are grown up and gone and the wife decided she didn't like me as much as she used to, so she's gone! It's just me and the dogand he don't care what I buy. Like I said I paid well under $700 for my pump and camplate, and well under list on most everything else. So what did I buy w/ the money I saved? :duh?: I bought something else I didn't need.......another rifle!! Ain't life grand!!! :thumbsup:
 

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Some people will tell you its not worth it. Their motivations may be driven by the fact that they couldn't afford it in their own build or didn't have it in their budget. Red Herring Fallacy They may also be driven by a common logic that they think the stock oil pump works "good enough" and choose to use a Baisley oil spring. And for some builds I think this is perfectly valid. "Logic" mentioned but no facts and data presented Proof please that the stock pump is deficient?
The Baisley spring helps the oiling system at idle by keeping the bypass oil circuit closed. This allows more oil pressure and volume to circulate to the rest of the engine where its needed. Many times the stock oil spring due to lack of tolerances in manufacturing will allow oil to bleed into the bypass oil circuit at idle. The Baisley bypass spring is also about 15-30% stiffer(depending on which Baisley spring you get)and it will also increase maximum psi oil pressure while engine is accelerating while riding which will also have its benefits. Cost $20. Cheap improvement that fixed a known weak link.
Interesting, per the SM the stock oil pump spring, as wimpy as it may appear, goes off at 42psi. No doubt that the pressure bleeding starts at below that but at idle? Most twin cams idle (oil temp over 180°) at 5 to 15psi I have observed. Isn't that enough pressure for a roller bearing motor turning at 1000 rpm + or -? If not show me a solid factual evidence to the contrary, please. BTW I use the lower pressure Baisley Latus part so I am not bashing the part. My reasoning for using the Baisley spring is just because I have measured several stock springs and the pressures vary more than I am comfortable with. So I use the Baisley Latus part just for consistency and it is mild enough to not overpressure the motors on a cold start with thick oil.

If your budget does allow for spending another $3-400 dollars, or $600-700 roughly you can still further improve your oil system in your bike by using the Feuling oil pump by itself or with the Feuling camplate combined. What evidence is there that the oiling system is deficient? Has worked well for me.

The Feuling pump scavanges better and increases oil pressure over the stock pump something significantly. And combined with the Feuling camplate(which also comes with a matched bypass oil spring designed to work with the Feuling oil pump's improved design)which is designed to improve oil flow to the pinion shaft and other critical parts of the engine. Improved oil flow helps to reduce engine temps in critical areas while offering better lubrication. That helps engine longevity, more so IMO on performance builds. And when we start to modify our stock engines, its always a good idea to improve upon the oiling system to make sure its up to the task. Especially when the engine itself is cooled by air and oil only. Cost $300-$700 depending on where you buy and if you buy the pump, or pump with camplate. Mostly sales rhetoric may or may not be true. I don't recall any controlled studies that prove the twin cam has oiling deficiencys
The Feuling pump and camplate are imrpovements, but is it worth it?

The truth in the matter is DO YOU want to spend $3-700 dollars more and have it in your budget? If the answer is yes, then go right on ahead and pick it up, its good insurance for your engine and is an improvement. If not, the Baisley bypass spring sure is a good cheap alternative. But if you decide to go the Feuling route, just remember you can normally get a couple hundred bucks back on the investment by selling off the stock oil pump and camplate on places such as Ebay. What is "truth"? How much of this discssion is truth or just replacing parts for the owners intrinsic value or self edification? I am not sure.

Personally IME I have used the pumps (so don't rathole me as a Feuling hater) and mainly see the benefit as the added scavenging. I have yet to see any oil related failures that could be pinned on any of the components in the stock twin cam oiling system. So improved scavenging is more power plain and simple, of course the increased volume from the Feuling pump mandates the need for better scavenging.
 
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