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Its time we moved on from Germany anyway. We need to pull all our military out of Germany and relocate them to more friendly developing nations closer to the middle east, like Croatia, Bosnia, Albania and even expand Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo with a runway and permenant structures for the long haul. They would love to have us as full time tennants and sure would be more welcoming. We have not been welcome in Germany for some time. I was there last year and I could feel the tension.
 

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Peacekeeper said:
Its time we moved on from Germany anyway. We need to pull all our military out of Germany and relocate them to more friendly developing nations closer to the middle east, like Croatia, Bosnia, Albania and even expand Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo with a runway and permenant structures for the long haul. They would love to have us as full time tennants and sure would be more welcoming. We have not been welcome in Germany for some time. I was there last year and I could feel the tension.
I have to agree. Rumsfeld a couple some years ago made noise about pulling out of Germany. As I remember the German gov't and the locals near our base(s) went berserk as they didn't want to lose the economic benefits. I might not have that exactly correct, but I do remember Rummy playing that card and them freaking out.
 

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This cannot be miltarily undertaken without re-instituting the draft (IMO)-

The discussions are now focused on two basic options: less invasive scenarios under which the U.S. might blockade Iranian imports of gasoline or exports of oil, actions generally thought to exact too high a cost on the Iranian people but not enough on the regime in Tehran; and full-scale aerial bombardment.

On the latter course, active consideration is being given as to how long it would take to degrade Iranian air defenses before American air superiority could be established and U.S. fighter jets could then begin a systematic attack on Iran's known nuclear targets.

Most relevant parties have concluded such a comprehensive attack plan would require at least a week of sustained bombing runs, and would at best set the Iranian nuclear program back a number of years — but not destroy it forever. Other considerations include the likelihood of Iranian reprisals against Tel Aviv and other Israeli population centers; and the effects on American troops in Iraq. There, officials have concluded that the Iranians are unlikely to do much more damage than they already have been able to inflict through their supply of explosives and training of insurgents in Iraq.


Ok Bush-haters, what is your solution?

Let me help you get started:

#1. Bush is lying, Iran is a peaceful country and don't have nuclear ambitions.

#2. Haliburton is using its pawn, Cheney, to fake the charges so it can make billions rebuilding the country.

#3. Its all so Bush can steal the oil and give it to his friends.

Ok..you take it from here...
 

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beasttd said:
I feel that we will not attack Iran, we will let Israel do it with our full blessing and support.
You might be right, but did you read the story? These don't appear to be plans for a "what if" scenario. It reads to me like plans that they plan to act on.
 

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Peacekeeper said:
Yes it can, its just that nobody has the balls to do it.
It sounds like the plans are for serious air strikes only. I'm not reading invasion so I don't think we'd need the ground troops. Of course if Iran's response is to try and invade Iraq, that might change things. I'm not sure they'd try that, Ahmadinejad isn't stupid.
 

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From what I read, the Germans' pullout leaves us no choice but to plan military stratagy. Now, maybe the Germans are really worried about the economic fallout from more sanctions. But do you really think that's less of a worry to them than having us bomb Iran? Like that wouldn't have any economic impact? I smell a rat, an ally rat. Who's to say that the Germans haven't taken their current position in order to cause the bombing and still come out smelling like a rose to the Iranians? It's pretty obvious to anyone who can read the news and who's studied history (or been there) that the Iranians dearly deserve it.
 

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claytp1 said:
You might be right, but did you read the story? These don't appear to be plans for a "what if" scenario. It reads to me like plans that they plan to act on.
Sounds like a way to gauge public support and opinion. I still say we do the aerial assault and Israel does the ground work.
 

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geoffreyt said:
If we bomb Iran, or anyone else does, we all better be ready for them to F*** with us. If they do we need to hurt them to their core. %[email protected]
Back in the late 70s and early 80s there use to be a song on the radio called "Bomb Iran". It was a spoof of the Beach boys "Barbara Ann". It ended up going to the top ten. Maybe they should resurect that to build public support for the next mission. Regan could have nuked Iran then and he would have been a national hero, if Bush did that today he would be turned over to the World Court and tried as a war criminal. 80% of America does not have the balls for an extended conflict. They want a quick sterile war with no bloodshed and no enemy civilian casualties. They want to sit at starbucks and **** with their Ipods and blackberries while the enemy prepares to march in our streets.
 

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I think it's just a bunch of sabre-rattling
 

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While were all beating our chests we may wish to consider the possible costs. I'm afraid that we have to consider a clash with China, they're not gonna take lightly any threat to their oil supply (Iranians have access to Iraqi pipelines too don't they?...at the very least we will piss off the Russians because one of the reactors (heavy water reactor at Bushehr) is Russian built and staffed with several hundred Russians. Not to mention the upheaval that Iran could cause using its proxies in the Middle East...Hezbollah in Lebanon and Shiite militias in Iraq, for example...to foment more violence and instability, Iran already has threatened to attack Israel's nuclear reactor if its own is attacked. A little closer to home, if Iran decided to shut down oil production/shipping or at least slow it some given the jittery nature of world oil markets and insurance companies, even the threat of such attacks could send oil prices to record highs, severely harming the U.S. economy. (though the harm would be disastrous to their economy too)
 

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swmnkdinthervr said:
While were all beating our chests we may wish to consider the possible costs. I'm afraid that we have to consider a clash with China, they're not gonna take lightly any threat to their oil supply (Iranians have access to Iraqi pipelines too don't they?...at the very least we will piss off the Russians because one of the reactors (heavy water reactor at Bushehr) is Russian built and staffed with several hundred Russians.

If Russia and China are reasons not to attack, they're also reasons why diplomacy is failing.

Not to mention the upheaval that Iran could cause using its proxies in the Middle East...Hezbollah in Lebanon and Shiite militias in Iraq, for example...to foment more violence and instability, Iran already has threatened to attack Israel's nuclear reactor if its own is attacked.

Iran has already threatened to remove Israel from the map too.

A little closer to home, if Iran decided to shut down oil production/shipping or at least slow it some given the jittery nature of world oil markets and insurance companies, even the threat of such attacks could send oil prices to record highs, severely harming the U.S. economy. (though the harm would be disastrous to their economy too)

I don't think they would shut down their only source of income. But I agree that the mere mention of attack will drive prices higher.
To me the real question is whether or not we can accept a nuclear armed Iran? It looks to me like Russia and China are willing to. But they also don't give a crap about Israel either. But we do, and as long as we do, the U.S.'s response is no to that question.

That said, until China and Russia decide to pressure the Iranians to give up their weapons program or Iran gives it up on their own (and I don't think either will happen), we're on a course that will end up with a military clash.

Maybe I'm an alarmist, but a nuclear armed Iran is a very scary thought to me.
 

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claytp1 said:
To me the real question is whether or not we can accept a nuclear armed Iran? It looks to me like Russia and China are willing to. But they also don't give a crap about Israel either. But we do, and as long as we do, the U.S.'s response is no to that question.

That said, until China and Russia decide to pressure the Iranians to give up their weapons program or Iran gives it up on their own (and I don't think either will happen), we're on a course that will end up with a military clash.

Maybe I'm an alarmist, but a nuclear armed Iran is a very scary thought to me.
The unfortunate addition to your scenario is that we may be playing with others already armed with nukes...and with a military already stretched to the breaking point we can ill afford being committed on another front...keep in mind if you were vote to institute the draft this very second it would be over 2-3 months to get everyone registered, 2 more to get it rolling and maybe a year before you could have a force trained...let alone equipped!!! What do you think the rest of the world will be doing during this time...I don't think they'll sitting on their collective hands...
 

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beasttd said:
Sounds like a way to gauge public support and opinion. I still say we do the aerial assault and Israel does the ground work.
uh, no. there is another country or two between Israel and Iran. Israel does not have a large standing army. They have a very efficient reserve army. They will beef up their homeland army if they feel threated by their neighbors but they will not airstrike Iran first. They will strike Iran to finish the job.
 

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HiAngle said:
Kicking the snot out of everybody doesn't spread democracy and peace??
No it does not, But, It’s a difficult and complicated world we live in today. The decisions we make today will be judged by history for hundreds of years. Do we take action now, while we can, knowing we can eliminate a potential threat, or do we wait until they can take out one of our battle groups with a nuke, or even worse, deliver it to our homeland? Iran is radical; they have been since the fall of the previous government. If they get nukes they will use them on Israel and us if they can get it here. I doubt Russia or China will risk what will escalate to a nuclear confrontation with the USA over trade, pride or ego. If they know we are serious about military action I think they will back down. Air and sea power can cripple Iran for decades. As long as we do not get trapped in another boots on the ground guerilla war we should be just fine with limited casualties.

Why is one of the oldest civilizations in the world one of the most primitive and archaic? Because they do not possess the reasoning and intelligence to handle modern weapons without trying to spread their mutated form of Islam. I say blast the bastards back into the stone age before they can cause a real Jericho in America.
 
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