I have to agree. Rumsfeld a couple some years ago made noise about pulling out of Germany. As I remember the German gov't and the locals near our base(s) went berserk as they didn't want to lose the economic benefits. I might not have that exactly correct, but I do remember Rummy playing that card and them freaking out.Peacekeeper said:Its time we moved on from Germany anyway. We need to pull all our military out of Germany and relocate them to more friendly developing nations closer to the middle east, like Croatia, Bosnia, Albania and even expand Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo with a runway and permenant structures for the long haul. They would love to have us as full time tennants and sure would be more welcoming. We have not been welcome in Germany for some time. I was there last year and I could feel the tension.
You might be right, but did you read the story? These don't appear to be plans for a "what if" scenario. It reads to me like plans that they plan to act on.beasttd said:I feel that we will not attack Iran, we will let Israel do it with our full blessing and support.
It sounds like the plans are for serious air strikes only. I'm not reading invasion so I don't think we'd need the ground troops. Of course if Iran's response is to try and invade Iraq, that might change things. I'm not sure they'd try that, Ahmadinejad isn't stupid.Peacekeeper said:Yes it can, its just that nobody has the balls to do it.
Sounds like a way to gauge public support and opinion. I still say we do the aerial assault and Israel does the ground work.claytp1 said:You might be right, but did you read the story? These don't appear to be plans for a "what if" scenario. It reads to me like plans that they plan to act on.
Back in the late 70s and early 80s there use to be a song on the radio called "Bomb Iran". It was a spoof of the Beach boys "Barbara Ann". It ended up going to the top ten. Maybe they should resurect that to build public support for the next mission. Regan could have nuked Iran then and he would have been a national hero, if Bush did that today he would be turned over to the World Court and tried as a war criminal. 80% of America does not have the balls for an extended conflict. They want a quick sterile war with no bloodshed and no enemy civilian casualties. They want to sit at starbucks and **** with their Ipods and blackberries while the enemy prepares to march in our streets.geoffreyt said:
To me the real question is whether or not we can accept a nuclear armed Iran? It looks to me like Russia and China are willing to. But they also don't give a crap about Israel either. But we do, and as long as we do, the U.S.'s response is no to that question.swmnkdinthervr said:While were all beating our chests we may wish to consider the possible costs. I'm afraid that we have to consider a clash with China, they're not gonna take lightly any threat to their oil supply (Iranians have access to Iraqi pipelines too don't they?...at the very least we will piss off the Russians because one of the reactors (heavy water reactor at Bushehr) is Russian built and staffed with several hundred Russians.
If Russia and China are reasons not to attack, they're also reasons why diplomacy is failing.
Not to mention the upheaval that Iran could cause using its proxies in the Middle East...Hezbollah in Lebanon and Shiite militias in Iraq, for example...to foment more violence and instability, Iran already has threatened to attack Israel's nuclear reactor if its own is attacked.
Iran has already threatened to remove Israel from the map too.
A little closer to home, if Iran decided to shut down oil production/shipping or at least slow it some given the jittery nature of world oil markets and insurance companies, even the threat of such attacks could send oil prices to record highs, severely harming the U.S. economy. (though the harm would be disastrous to their economy too)
I don't think they would shut down their only source of income. But I agree that the mere mention of attack will drive prices higher.
The unfortunate addition to your scenario is that we may be playing with others already armed with nukes...and with a military already stretched to the breaking point we can ill afford being committed on another front...keep in mind if you were vote to institute the draft this very second it would be over 2-3 months to get everyone registered, 2 more to get it rolling and maybe a year before you could have a force trained...let alone equipped!!! What do you think the rest of the world will be doing during this time...I don't think they'll sitting on their collective hands...claytp1 said:To me the real question is whether or not we can accept a nuclear armed Iran? It looks to me like Russia and China are willing to. But they also don't give a crap about Israel either. But we do, and as long as we do, the U.S.'s response is no to that question.
That said, until China and Russia decide to pressure the Iranians to give up their weapons program or Iran gives it up on their own (and I don't think either will happen), we're on a course that will end up with a military clash.
Maybe I'm an alarmist, but a nuclear armed Iran is a very scary thought to me.
uh, no. there is another country or two between Israel and Iran. Israel does not have a large standing army. They have a very efficient reserve army. They will beef up their homeland army if they feel threated by their neighbors but they will not airstrike Iran first. They will strike Iran to finish the job.beasttd said:Sounds like a way to gauge public support and opinion. I still say we do the aerial assault and Israel does the ground work.
No it does not, But, It’s a difficult and complicated world we live in today. The decisions we make today will be judged by history for hundreds of years. Do we take action now, while we can, knowing we can eliminate a potential threat, or do we wait until they can take out one of our battle groups with a nuke, or even worse, deliver it to our homeland? Iran is radical; they have been since the fall of the previous government. If they get nukes they will use them on Israel and us if they can get it here. I doubt Russia or China will risk what will escalate to a nuclear confrontation with the USA over trade, pride or ego. If they know we are serious about military action I think they will back down. Air and sea power can cripple Iran for decades. As long as we do not get trapped in another boots on the ground guerilla war we should be just fine with limited casualties.HiAngle said:Kicking the snot out of everybody doesn't spread democracy and peace??