[Street.sweeper]

Do you get to ride Cascade Hiway>??
That is one of the nicest in the country!
Being I am already at 1.25 per cube I have to start looking somewhere else to reach my goal.
I will even grasp at that low-hanging fruit!

Actually, back when I was 17 I rode my FZR 750 through the Skagit valley then through the Cascades and up back to the Canadian Okanagan...or Osoyoos. That was a beautiful ride...one I wont forget. That was a trip to the Peach festival in Penticton back in August of '88.
I gapped my rings for nitrous....just incase...lol
I also went with a gapless 2nd ring.

 

[troqed]

shame shame on you, you are a hot rodder!
Apple Blossom in Wenatchee was always interesting too!
But my favorite twn is Winthrop!
From Car shows to pizza, beer, and great rides, it wins!

 

[Hoges]

Wow, Don thanks for the invite to come out and see ya!
I am so surprised you are so defensive over a hobbyist in their backyard shop!
Did you not work for Baisley?

Troqed you lost your invite that you thought you had. And you figured you had Don worked out. Just take it easy as we are interested in your work. As your 80 putting 100 hp at low RPM is a credit to you. Let know comp. Cam. Ignition etc mate.

 

[troqed]

Yea...so sad, LOL
As to dimpling,
A lot of bigger named porters are now advocating this little trick!
Weingartner, Vizard, The LS community and some other big names.
So i will have to think it is not all snake oil.
Keeping the gas particles in mid-flight is a good thing, rather then banging against the walls.
Everything is incremental for power after one to one is achieved.
For a while I was working on rotator valves , slide valves , and some other variations
I thought I was trespassing into something new.!
NOT
They have all been tried even holding patents.
After some research, i was just reinventing the wheel that did not work well for anyone.
But it was interesting!

 

[Hoges]

Mate keep it up you have a passion that cant be stopped.

 

[Don Dorfman]

So you think just randomly dimpling the port will show gains in flow? The whole port or partial parts of the port? If so where and how many, what pattern. How can this internet sensation be translated into real world results, first flow bench then dyno testing. This moves the theory from testimonials to real world gains on a Harley V-twin. I agree there could be potential and have an open mind. But car guys hunt for 5hp, that is 1hp in our world. Show me 5-10 on a back to back dyno test with a engine already developed to a 1.2hp/cu in level and I am on board.

 

[troqed]

The thing is what works for little cubed engines, works well for larger ones. (VE)
With a turbine engine, there is no mass to stop (piston) and spark and ignition to deal with .
Nothing is changing direction
Pour it in (fuel) and it pumps out the power.
Simple
SO obviously the problems are with the piston arrangement.
a recip has four cycles, a turbine just one, what they call a combined cycle CCGT-
Somewhere between a diesel and a turbine is the utopia the no stop and go flow go power.
The TDC combustion chamber is the enemy to be dealt with.
Combustion chambers in a recip dictate timing , in a purrfect world no advanced timing would be needed.
These are the parameters to work with as elementary as they are,
Still a hump we have not hurdled.
People have been struggling with combustion chamber design from day one with vast improvements.
With the advent of the electricity, i believe there will be a waning of will and intellect directed as making the IC engine too much better.
back to-
So-with a piston configuration it is all about relighting the fire between strokes and a compression ratio that does not exceed the combustion octane requirements.
The genius here is a different rod configuration that promotes less stop and go .
SOme platforms are already using them is some (cars)
Whilst we drizzle with the old POS Harley engine time has passed us by.
We are antiquated useless, and too stupid to even know it.!
Archaic as they and we maybe, they are the model T or perhaps worth even less in 20 years.

 

[Hoges]

Good point Don. We have yet to see how Troqed can achive his amazing results. Imagain leting him loose on a TC 107 for eg

 

[troqed]

Don-
I am looking for the marginal now as I do have the 1.25 to the street, actually a little more. (all ready)
Flow benches are a great tool and certainly useful.' but they are not the end answer unless there are flow benches races somewhere..
There are heads that work really really well, and yet, show poor performance on the scream machine wind tunnels.
If you looked at my heads you would you might say THAT CANT work!
So here and now I am doing the one inch at a time thing, yes incrementally gaining on it every season.
I will give you a % of flow rate if there is one to be had later, but MORE importantly the % on power and torq gain if there is one.
Where the tire meets the road is the number i deal with as important.

 

[Don Dorfman]

I have been on these forums since 2004 and seen many "dare to be different" guys come and go. They lighten, use 55deg seats, super narrow seats, low friction this or that, titanium this and inconel that, gas ported blah blah blah and in the end their motors blow or just don't meet their expectations. I am not an anti technologist but I also have a pretty good feel for how far to get toward "cutting edge" before reaching "bleeding edge". I know about ring technology and have used gas porting when the budget was there plus employ bore and honing techniques for minimum leakdown and tight ring seal which equal power and less oil in the combustion which equals less octane loss.
I don't know how well you are funded but the tools that can give you the results you seek and an edge is not a flow bench it is FEA looking for combustion analysis and in cylinder combustion monitoring. Both have become tools that no longer are limited to OEM budgets but are albeit spendy.

 

[Street.sweeper]

Don-
I am looking for the marginal now as I do have the 1.25 to the street, actually a little more. (all ready)
Flow benches are a great tool and certainly useful.' but they are not the end answer unless there are flow benches races somewhere..
There are heads that work really really well, and yet, show poor performance on the scream machine wind tunnels.
If you looked at my heads you would you might say THAT CANT work!
So here and now I am doing the one inch at a time thing, yes incrementally gaining on it every season.
I will give you a % of flow rate if there is one to be had later, but MORE importantly the % on power and torq gain if there is one.
Where the tire meets the road is the number i deal with as important.

Do you all use the math for flow density as apart of your porting?

 

[troqed]

don,
You come across like I have incinerated you
insulated you.
Up to this point I have not.
As i said B4 you should maybe perhaps say "Congrats man, a job well done!"
As I said
I build for a TBO for a hopeful 20K .
So far I have only failed once because more schooling was needed on
the ramifications of the pinion nut and some not-so-stock valve springs.
As far as investing in a store-bought wind tunnel,.... i have outdone many who have one , so what the point in dising me for my farmyard ways of doing things/?
You do Seems caustic.
PLUS-
There is nothing wrong with all that you found fault with in your above rants, some of it will not add any power, some will, none would hurt anything except the wallet.
Ceramic bearings are tomorrow's technology today.
Get used to them, I suggest.
I will guarantee you- port styles will be forever changing for the next forever as long as we use them
Don't get caught in your latitudes, bad attitudes, laurels ,and dissing someone cause it WORKS.
Bigger name shops than yours advocate dimples now.!
And -
No, - Nasty car will not permit them, they are too hard to hide from the judges.
So don't get caught teaching history lessons as you will be left behind on the grid.
By your own admission, you have not created a low RPM 1.25 engine
I have!
Why kick dirt in my direction of success?
i get the idea you are sort of a bitter person?
It runs to Sturgis and lots of other places quite nicely, and I like it for my ego, I will admit it.
Harley engines- are not my forte, Nor even a sideshow, i do lots of other stuff, not my wheelhouse or for a living. Even.
You should be able to add fragrance and flavor here, a demeanor of professionalism, not indifference.
This makes you look very insecure.
If you want to brag about being anywhere as you did above in the little sermon and rant, I have been on the planet for 70 years and am still learning as i go.
I don't think you have peeked yet?
I certainly hope not.
I hope the best for you!
Smoky is still worth reading.
I would be open to his critique ..he had a way about him.
He also won races.
If you want to dis and shet on someone, you need more on yopur resume then a "I own a wind______ table ."
Results in the real world is what counts .
I am open to your apology. (if you can muster it)

 

[troqed]

Good point Don. We have yet to see how Troqed can achive his amazing results. Imagain leting him loose on a TC 107 for eg

I have never ever hardly looked at a Twink, They breathe that much better?
I have shamed a lot bigger ones than mine ...so I dont know.....

 

[troqed]

Fior an informative read...

10 Myths Of Cylinder Head Porting

About the Author: Dave Localio is a long-time friend of ours and the owner/operator of Headgames Motorworks, a cylinder head specialist founded in New Jersey in 2001. Dave and his team have amassed…

speed.academy

 

[troqed]

Some real-world results from a fo bench.
We can all learn something for this mans hard work.

 

[troqed]

There is a big long long, log and rhythms formula for optimism port V and length.
If we could get the little soldiers in line a little sooner, and march them a little longer, this would be very beneficial.
But most of us do not want an 8-inch intake stuck out there.
So that leaves us with looking for artificial ways of fooling the venturi Reynolds, Bernoulli's principle.
The dimples are one way to placate them into what they were not ready for .
" Nothing is new under the sun said," King Solomon.
This holds true still today, just we are late to the party rediscovering it all. For sure we are not going to reinvent physios.
Not until we can control gravity which I am sure is in the mail.
So, the next dyno run will go up past the 1.30 mark, if I left everything alone right now, by just not shutting it dwn so soon.
More can be done, i just need an extra eight inches......LOL
Working on it.....................
i think i mentioned this somewhere?
You guys should look at all the work that has been done in the past on "rotary Valves !"
For sure it looked promising ...
the runway just is not long enough.

 

[Don Dorfman]

Mike Roland sold off the shelf parts via kiryakyn to get a 95" to make 1.4 hp per inch felt like a stocker until you looked at the speedometer. I have flowed and measured the heads, not revolutionary or dimpled. I am not saying the dimples may not do anything but on a V8 maybe 5hp, not worth the trouble on a vtwin in my opinion.

 

[Thermodyne]

It still comes down to line of sight. So you raise the port roof and clean up the bowel. If its an aluminum head you weld it up to raise the port floor. Or you can dimple the floor. I not sure what the dimples do as far as interacting with the dead area of the air flow. But welding just eliminates the dead space.

Since we are doing cars as examples, this is a SBC 492 head. It was "the head" in the late 70's.
Notice the port location on the intake flange. This head has had the crap ported out of it and made good power at very high rpm. It also was pretty much guaranteed to crack from lack of material.

This is what we would run to day. Look at where the ports are in the flange. This head will probably make 50% more power than the iron head from the 70's.

Harleys would benefit from this too. But unfortunately the Harley performance world is very much married to using oem port locations. Partially because of space limitations, and partly because of the cost involved when a head needs a special intakes and special pipes.

 

[troqed]

"Well behaved" should be a street goal, and is what I have too,
It is just a nice smooth fast transition to the end of the sheet, or faster than I will ever want to go.
Being we travel two up and heavy, a lot of roll-on is very nice..
To get the thing out, past,, and back in line, is a necessary commodity in my opinion.
Now, with the Big Bad Baker 6th gear O.D., it is even more necessary to have the torq in the range needed.
Real mountain passes do not slow us dwn much.

 

[Uncle Salty]

I am not saying the dimples may not do anything but on a V8 maybe 5hp,

Dimples are revolutionary on a Porsche. All of the Porsche guys have them.