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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 98 Springer softail with D&D Fatcat 2-1 exhaust, S/E a/c, and rebuilt carb. I'll soon be putting in an EV-27 cam and have been told I need to upgrade the ingition also. If that's so, would I want a single or dual fire? I'm looking at a Crane Hi-4. What else would I need, coil, etc.?
 

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you do not need to change your ignition when changing a cam

although a adjustable igniotn would help the performace of your bike alot

single fire is the way to go for evo,s for sure but you do not have to go there

if you do decide to go there
the crane hi4e
the e stands for external module
it has a few more fetures then the nose cone igniton
yes you will need a coil
the crane hi4e also comes in a kit with coil and wires easy install over the nose cone version as well

daytona twin tech also has a external ignition kit with signle fire
that you can lock some of the settings using a pass word
they guys at dtt used to be at crane
alan and chris are 2 of the best guru,s around and will be glad to talk to you on the phone if you have problems
tell then snuffy sent ya

ps
there are a lot better choices then the
ev27
andrews is way behind r&d
folks use the 23 and 27 because it has been used tons of time before
and they are not willing to do the reserch on some of the new cams
do your self a favor and look at crane and v thunder comp cams specs before you buy the 27
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the advice, Snuffy. Can you give any recommendations on the other cams? Looking at specs on cams is like trying to read Chinese to me, I ain't any good at it.
 

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SNUFFY said:
y
ps
there are a lot better choices then the
ev27
andrews is way behind r&d
folks use the 23 and 27 because it has been used tons of time before
and they are not willing to do the reserch on some of the new cams
do your self a favor and look at crane and v thunder comp cams specs before you buy the 27
This is the first time I have read a negative comment about the Andrews Cams. There has been a lot of discussion in here about the performance of the various Andrews..ie; EV-27 versus EV-3, etc, etc.

Snuffy, your credentials and experience speak for themselves and the info you just provided to StanC really will help him a lot. I had no idea that the cam you mentioned was so much better than the Andrews because I simply don't have the background and knowledge that you have. I don't agree that people don't research because they don't want to. I think people don't research because most aren't really sure what to look for concerning lift and duration etc. (Would be like shopping for an O'scope when you don't have the knowledge about what to look for to begin with)

Anyway, when my EV-3 wears out I will come right back to you my friend for advice on a new cam for sure. Right now I have the EV-3, Kuryakyn Hypercharger, rejetted carb, screaming eagle ignition, Carlini torque arm, and V&H Propipe on my 1995 FXDWG. The bike has plenty of "sh*t and get" for me.

Semper Fi,
Steve....Pensacola
USMC 1972 - 2003
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Good lookin' ride, Steve.
 

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stanc said:
I have a 98 Springer softail with D&D Fatcat 2-1 exhaust, S/E a/c, and rebuilt carb. I'll soon be putting in an EV-27 cam and have been told I need to upgrade the ingition also. If that's so, would I want a single or dual fire? I'm looking at a Crane Hi-4. What else would I need, coil, etc.?
I agree with snuffy except for two things...

1. He didn't mention another very good performance ignition system.. the Dyna 2000i. I've been using it for a while and it works great! I made my own custom advance curve to help increase low end responsivness.

2. The EV27 is a good, all around performance street cam. A lot of people use it because it WORKS! I use it on my 1995 Dyna and along with some other mods, that cam helps to create 87 HP/92 ft.lbs torque. Just using that cam with your other mods will put a grin on your face! That's plenty for most people.

Yes, there are a lot of other cams out there. Many different brands have basically the same specs, and will give similiar performance increases. The general rule is to go with a cam that has the highest lift your heads can handle (usually listed as "bolt-in" for stock heads).

The other main factor to consider is the duration numbers. For a street bike where you want a lot of low and mid range torque, you want the lowest numbers you can find. Keeping them under 240 deg. will yield the best streetable performance. Longer duration cams don't start making torque and power until higher rpms. Since most people spend 95% of their time in the 1500-4000 rpm range, then a cam with durations less than 240 will perform best.

As for me, I decided that since I've had a lot of headwork done last year, I'll be switching to the Woods W6H. It will allow the engine to breath better without losing the low and mid range torque, since it's also a short duration cam. If you like quick stoplight to stoplight acceleration, and not needing to downshift when passing on the interstate, then the EV27, or a cam with similiar specs like the Woods W6 (not W6H), will work very well and are both "bolt-in".

You can shop around for the best price, comparing the specs of the cams, mainly concentrating on lift and duration. Unless you plan on racing your bike, the slight advantages of some of the similiar cams (with similiar specs) from V-thunder and Crane won't really matter that much (not that they are bad cams)... You just aren't likely to feel the difference in everyday riding. I have confirmed this on various dyno runs using several similiar cams.

If you really don't know much about cam design or don't feel like wading through the numbers, or if you don't plan on trying to win a dyno shootout, then you'll do well to go with something that has been proven for many years to perform well... like the EV27. :)
 

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my intention was NOT to call the 27 a bad cam or any other andrews cam bad
and i did not mean to come across opionated
it is a good cam and they are good cams
and i do use them time to time moslty in lighter bikes
i have used them in heavy bikes with good results
but more times then not my customers have come back un happy with the 27
in springers and i have made them happy with crane or comp cam
its moslty riding style and noise i think
but as long as my customers are happy i get to eat

my intention was to get him thinking abought other cams that would work
better with his 850 pound springer vs a light wieght dyna with his currant exhaust and carb set up
you have to rember this bike is going to be slower in responding to throttle due to the cv carb and the 65 tooth rear pulley plus the 1/2 ton it wieghs


i also agree abought street bikes beeing riden within certain rpm bands
and that with stock heads you want to look at the lift numbers that match your spring with short durations under 240
but what the custome may want will throw this eqation out the door
lets never forget abought timming numbers,lobe seperation angles= l.s.a.
and valve overlap
plus then you need to take a hard look at ramp angles and ramp speeds or you will get a lot of noise, heat and unwanted wear
this is as important as the type and style of pushrod used in a evo

i have never used woods cam in a evo so i can not commet on them
i just dont like his numbers
again my prefrence
i have always thought of woods cams and s&s cams for evo abought the same
although s&s has a couple of new numbers for evos i have not tried

i have used woods cams and s&s cams in tc88 with good results
but they were not bolt in cams

one other reason i mention crane and v thunder is the adjustable cam gear
you do not need a gear jig cost 200 bucks or a tech to change the timming of the cam

dyno,s are a tool just like a 1/2 inch 12 point socket
i really do not think a guy with a 850 touring bike is looking for top end horse power like a guy with a dyna migh be looking for
if he is a flsts is not the bike he needs
in this case i would use the dyno for tourq numbers in the rpm this guy rides most of the time
bring the tourq peek lower in the rpm band and try to hold it longer
once you did that the horsepower will come
he is probly looking for a way to make this bike go past 80mph and have some roll on tourq for passing and getting out of they way
a trans pulley change would help this out as well
a combo of both make a flsts a pleasur to ride on the street and hi ways


i did not forget to mention dyna igniton
i just dont use them due to so many failures I HAVE ENCOUNTERED IN THE PAST with the older vesions of the dyna igniton systems

i have however never used any of the new dyna igniton systems so they might be better i will never know

when you find a company that will not stand behind there product in the past you really dont want to use them ever again in the futchure
once it cost guys like me money we try to oviod it again
and again

you can also create your own curvs with the crane or the dtt and a pc if you have the know how its pretty simple
 

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the poster with the head work and the woods cam
do your self a favor look at the new extreame energy cams from comp cams
tell me what ya think abought the numbers
i really want to know your opinon
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have a Springer Softail, not a Classic or Heritage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
FXSTS Springer Softail. I should have made that clearer, Snuffy. Most of my riding on this bike is fairly local, within a couple hundred miles. What I'm really looking for is low end torque in a bolt-in cam. I just bought a S/E ignition module yesterday so that part of the equation is complete. Now the cam is what I need to decide on and I appreciate all of this discussion.
 

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You make some good points, snuffy. I was just trying to simplify the cam numbers for him, since he said he didn't really understand them all.... not many folks do. :)

I will look into the Extreme Energy cams. I haven't checked into them yet. I like Comp Cam products, and I am using their springs right now.
 

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ToddM said:
You make some good points, snuffy. I was just trying to simplify the cam numbers for him, since he said he didn't really understand them all.... not many folks do. :)

I agree and that is why i said what i did
most folks do not understand so they ask there buddy or a guy at a parts house who also dont understand
so they all recommend a cam that has been around since the inventon of cold roll steel
and not that this cam is not good buy any means
but the technolgy today far superceeds that of 1985
with computer programming of lobe angles or so on and so forth
but hey andrews is just like any other co.
why change something that sells
why put any r&d into something that has selling numbers the same today as it did 20 years ago
hell look at hd they are still using 1940 technology in tadays bikes
and there bikes sell like hot cakes
would you use purchase a 35mm film camara for 150 bucks
if you could get a 8 mega pix slr for the same money?
thats all i was trying to say in my first post
 

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First off let me open by saying hello to one and all in this discussion. I was told of this forum by a friend and decided to join in. That said if I may throw my two cents in to you Stanc. Snuffy, as well as the others I have read have all offered a wealth of good sound info. I my self have used about every make cam and ign in the aftermarket and H-D lines. I currently use Andrews for two reasons that are somewhat unique to my needs. First neither Comp nor Crane would talk to me about custom grinds to my specs unless I was about to order several dozen or so. Also I have some QC issues with Crane cams. Andrews has bent over backwards for me grinding my turbo cam profile designs for my turbocharged evo's. Their r & d for awhile was back burner but some new blood has been intro'd and they are making strides. Biggest thing is their new "what is a cam and what do you need" help to guide you and educate you about your "cam" needs and selection of also needed items for peak power to dollar invested. I read that you have purchased and ign. system and it will benefit you well in doing so. Snuffy is dead on about single vs. wasted spark systems. I use only S&S intelligents because of their ability to understand supercharging when a 3 bar MAP is added. My current daily rider is a '99 FLSTC with a turbo pushing 10#'s of boost. I have done been through all of the camin', strokin', borein and carbin' crap and spent countless $$$$ to go fast. I now only turbocharge and spend the money saved to buy more toys. So be careful my friend of the money pit that is "I want to go faster". My little 80 inch gets left at the light by the big inchers but by the end of the intersection they can't even read/see my plate. And whats more my scoot runs all season long, season after season without having to tinker or fix, well, tires don't count do they? Your desire to hands on improve your ride is very commendable, too many trailer queens any more. A very dear friend, now gone, told me along time ago that to truely be a good biker you have build it and break it a few times before you understand where you want to be and how fast you "need" to go.
 

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aallynnp said:
Your desire to hands on improve your ride is very commendable, too many trailer queens any more. A very dear friend, now gone, told me along time ago that to truely be a good biker you have build it and break it a few times before you understand where you want to be and how fast you "need" to go.
I agree completely. It's good to see someone who wants to do the research and work themselves. "Trailer Queens".... LOL!!! Never heard that term before... but you are right! There are so many people letting someone else bolt on a bunch of stuff that half of the other motorcyclists (notice I didn't say "bikers") out there are using, and that's not "building" a bike, in my book. It's just bolting on parts.... anyone can do that. :)

I've built several bikes from the ground up and IMHO, you simply can't get the same amount of satisfaction by having someone else bolt a bunch of parts on for you. I prefer to do my own paint, welding, machining, etc. There have always been many parts on my bikes that no one, and I mean no one, else has! I understand that a lot of people don't have the skills or time to do it, though. Still, I wasn't born with that information, and if I can learn that stuff, then anybody can. LOL! :D The resources are out there, ya just need to have a strong desire to learn it.

Anyway, thanks for the good input about the cams. I too, am always concerned about quality control by the manufacturers... being a former QA inspector myself. I know what passes for "Quality" by some companies... many are not very impressive. The last place I worked was more interested in having good sales numbers than they were about quality. The plant manager told me on several occasions to release parts that were not within tolerance, preferring to make the numbers look good, then getting the parts back later as defective. That's one of the reasons I quit after only a year and a half. :)
 
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