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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, there not actually "rocker lockers" brand but "Rockouts". One was Amazon prime, the other was not and they look like they do the same job.

Anyway, while the tank is lifted/removed and the covers are off what else is advised? It doesn't look like a huge job to remove the tank but its enough work that I'd rather NOT do it twice (if I can help it).
 

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Depends on the age of the scooter and what has or hasn't been done to it in the past. Maybe new breathers and open up the oil return hole? If any valvetrain maintenance needs attention it would be a good time to do it, lifters, tensioners, cam bearings, etc. Adjustable pushrods would also change the need to do some of that while you're in the rocker box.
 

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You should drill the drain holes of the rocker support plate to .125" while you have the support plate on the bench.

Armin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Its an '07 with ~36K on it.

I had considered lateral rocker movement but I don't remember seeing an acceptable spec on that movement. I suspect slightly loose and noisy is better than too tight.

Certianly not saying no to opening the oil-return holes or the breathers but what do I gain with those?

My main goal, of course, is to stop the top-end noise from making it sound like a tractor.
 

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Replace the lifters to avoid potential failures which can be catastrophic. Three brands that come to mind are, Comp Cams 850 (Chevy lifter), S&S,and Johnson HyLift.I lean towards the Johnson HyLift lifters.Great quality at a good price.

Replace the breathers because at the very least the rubber umbrella valves become less pliable and don't seal as well due to heat and time.Many say the newer design reduces blow by.Either way,good breathers reduce the amount of oil and crankcase gasses entering the combustion chamber.
 

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I prefer Feuling lifters, worked great in my Buell to make it more quiet and put them in the Harley when I was in there. Not real cheap, but I think they are good quality.

Breathers are a given, they are cheap. Just make sure you install them the correct side up.

Like other people have said, just go ahead and install adjustable pushrods. You'll regret it later when you make a stupid mistake and have to go back in to fix it. Trust me, just buy them. I bought the lesser expensive S&S pushrods when I went back in to fix an O ring on the fuel pump that I didn't do correctly. Spend it now or spend it later, up to you.

I did not do a set of lockers, really should have done this but didn't learn about them until I had the top end buttoned up and didn't feel like going back in. I'll get there eventually.

Also... Depending on the mileage, go into the tank and change the fuel filters and check or replace the high pressure lines. Again they were fairly cheap for my 05, and I had to go back in to change the in tank to tank fitting high pressure line (output line) because of a leak. I went with a $25 third party line vs. the $60+ factory line. Another thing I should have heeded from the advice I was given, and didn't until it bit me in the @$$.
 

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I prefer Feuling lifters, worked great in my Buell to make it more quiet and put them in the Harley when I was in there. Not real cheap, but I think they are good quality.

Breathers are a given, they are cheap. Just make sure you install them the correct side up.

Like other people have said, just go ahead and install adjustable pushrods. You'll regret it later when you make a stupid mistake and have to go back in to fix it. Trust me, just buy them. I bought the lesser expensive S&S pushrods when I went back in to fix an O ring on the fuel pump that I didn't do correctly. Spend it now or spend it later, up to you.

I did not do a set of lockers, really should have done this but didn't learn about them until I had the top end buttoned up and didn't feel like going back in. I'll get there eventually.

Also... Depending on the mileage, go into the tank and change the fuel filters and check or replace the high pressure lines. Again they were fairly cheap for my 05, and I had to go back in to change the in tank to tank fitting high pressure line (output line) because of a leak. I went with a $25 third party line vs. the $60+ factory line. Another thing I should have heeded from the advice I was given, and didn't until it bit me in the @$$.
Smart money is with not using adjustable pushrods these days. If you need more strength go with tapered, and if you need a different length then order a set to fit. Twin cam covers come off easy so nothing really saved by using adjustable rods. And the adjustable rods raise the pressure in the rocker box, increasing the amount of oil carried over.
 

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Smart money is with not using adjustable pushrods these days. If you need more strength go with tapered, and if you need a different length then order a set to fit. Twin cam covers come off easy so nothing really saved by using adjustable rods. And the adjustable rods raise the pressure in the rocker box, increasing the amount of oil carried over.
Interesting, How does pushrods increase the pressure in the rocker box? I prefer solid rods also but never thought about how this happens. Is it really that significant of an amount if increase?
 

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Interesting, How does pushrods increase the pressure in the rocker box? I prefer solid rods also but never thought about how this happens. Is it really that significant of an amount if increase?
I'm not sure. The hex is larger than the round section, so it physically blocks off some of the flow. And being hexes and threaded rods and such, it prolly disturbs the flow.

I saw a pile of threaded rods in a reputable builders take off bin. And when I asked about them I was told they no longer used them on twin cams or M8's. And that switching to tapered has reduced their oil carry over issues with new builds. I'm thinking that some adjustables prolly block the flow more than others, and I'm thinking that how close the adjuster gets to the step down in the tube has more than a little to do with it.

But with already knowing the advantages of a lighter pushrod, and seeing past all the bullshit about about small changes in adjustment making a difference in the sound, its just one more reason to not use adjustables. Also it has within the last year gotten a lot easier to get custom length twin cam pushrods off the shelf.
 

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But if you only need to go into the cam chest, the adjustables allow this without pulling the tank off.

The flow should not be changed unless the adjustable has a smaller diameter in the tube than the diameter of the hole in each end. The resistance to flow in a tube should be fairly negligible compared to the flow through the ends.

I guess there are still arguments either way for adjustable or not. I would guess that higher power and more radical cams would really put an adjustable to the test, that might be why they no longer use them.
 

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But if you only need to go into the cam chest, the adjustables allow this without pulling the tank off.

The flow should not be changed unless the adjustable has a smaller diameter in the tube than the diameter of the hole in each end. The resistance to flow in a tube should be fairly negligible compared to the flow through the ends.

I guess there are still arguments either way for adjustable or not. I would guess that higher power and more radical cams would really put an adjustable to the test, that might be why they no longer use them.
On a newer scooter, I'll pull the tank 24/7/365. It has to be a serious time bind for me to cut rods on Harley these days. FXR's being an exception. Even on a late bagger, it is a little faster to cut the rods, but $100 saved is $100 to spend on other speed stuff. And those adjustable rods don't make it go faster.

Another way of looking at it. Back when I was fooling with V8 go fast toys, we worried about grams in the valve train. And they were way better engineered than any Harley. But with Harley's, we dump 10's of extra gram in for ease of instillation. Now I realise that with a lot of these stage upgrades, they use oem springs, and the only time the scooter ever sees the rev limiter is if it gets a pull on the dyno. So the valve train doesn't spend a lot of time under high stress.

Would I take a set of adjustables out of a scooter just to see if it would lessen the carry over? Not unless I was already in there for another reason.

But if I was going to push the limiter out to say 7600, then ya I would be looking at where I could save some weight in the valve train.
 

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I'll stay with adjustable pushrods. A few grams ain't hurting my tractor motors. Heck, I remember some bad small block powered street cars that never saw 7,200 RPM. These twins around here are lucky to hit 5,000.
 

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I'll stay with adjustable pushrods. A few grams ain't hurting my tractor motors.
I'll stay with mine, too. Anything that make working on the engine easier is worth it in my book.

Sent from my 2 Tin Cans With A String using Tapatalk
 

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Mine is stock performance so I expect they will function fine for me. And not having to tear apart the top if I'm working in the cam area is of value to me since I've recently redone some of the top. Next time the top comes apart, I have some drilling to do. Another thing I didn't know about when I was doing the other work.
 

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18404-08 pushrods or reuse the stock ones being as the rockers are out on top anyway.

Other parts
Hylift topline lifters B2313SE
Rocker lockers
Shim rockers to .004 with rockers torqued
Check shafts and bushings
Change to late breather valves
 
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