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Discussion Starter #1
OK, this is mostly for the "old school guy's".
I'm thinking of converting my '78 Shovel to solid's and would like ya'lls input. I already know the down side is more clatter but, the upside is easier starting and quicker response. So, what, if any, opinion's do ya'll have, good or bad? I've heard that you need to change crank's but haven't found any proof to support this.
Whatchyall think?
 

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How high do you wanna wind her up? Do wanna adjust 'em every 2000 miles? I run hydros 'cause I wanna set 'em and forget 'em and I don't run 6500 rpm so I'm no worried about floatin' a valve. Most guys I know that ran 'em eventually went back. They ain't bad just depends on the application...
 

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I have run solids for years I adjust them once or twice a season.
For me the advantage is easier to adjust and they work with cam upgrades(my Anderws B grind).They do make a little more noise but not that much.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have run'em before and since I gotta replace the seal ring's in the push rod cover's this winter I thought about goin back to them while I got it tore down. I already got two different kit's from my other Shovel but, when I mentioned it to a buddy he said I need to change the crank out to, because the solid's would "bang h*ll outta a stock crank? I've NEVER heard this before and cant find anyone else who has either. A stock crank is a stock crank and all the old iron ran solid's. I lik'em for the easier start's and quicker response. There's been no "upgrade's" to the bike other than bein punched 20 over on the last head job and, with the Milwaukee shotgun blaster exhaust ya cant hear the "tickin" anyway. LOL!
Pretty much just wonderin if any of ya'll ever heard this "change the crank" story?
 

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swapped em both ways,solid to hyd and hyd to solid.
changed a few cranks,but just to stroke it.
never heard what your saying.
you can just put solid inserts in your hyd lifters also.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
swapped em both ways,solid to hyd and hyd to solid.
changed a few cranks,but just to stroke it.
never heard what your saying.
you can just put solid inserts in your hyd lifters also.
Yeah Stroker, that's what I got is two of the "insert conversion kit's". One set are the sleeve's that look like and are adjustable like the old solid's with the solid pushrod's and the other are the "non-adjustable" sleeves so you can use your adjustable pushrod's. Personally, I like the solid sleeve's so I can adjust the pushrod's, seem's like they go farther between "mileage adjustment's".
Thank's for the input guy's, thought I was right about not havin ta change out the crank but, I'm gittin old and the memory is startin ta fade, hyuk hyuk!
Keep those card's and letter's comin!
 

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155" R&R TwinCam
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Aways ran solids in all my Harleys just because was always racing.Been running strokers since the early eighties,solids always fit bill,quick reving,loved the sewing machine sound when lifters were adjusted correctly.
 

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Hi Man

I'll bet your buddy means you gotta change the Cam......
Your stock '78 runs a "hydraulic" cam, meaning it's meant for Hydraulic Cam Followers (lifters)..
I have never run solids on a hydraulic cam so I don't have first-hand knowledge of what will occur but,, supposedly it'll beat the heck outa the Hydraulic Cam.. Has to do with the Lobe Ramp angle etc etc etc....

I have run solids in my 1978 93" shovel since the early 80's on a Andrews 6 grind cam (between an A grind & a C grind)..
I have about 18,000 Miles on this last adjust..
Just a wee teeeeny more upper noise,, like Dog says,,,, a sweet easy tic,, yeah baby.......

I ran the "inserts" many years ago and in my experience,,, not worth the trouble cuz the spring that sits below the adjuster makes for a difficult "feel" when trying to get a perfect adjust.. The spring can be removed but bottom line is still this----- a Solid on a Hydraulic Cam..

I have never bought the "easier starting & quicker response" stuff..
I build all my sickles Kick-Only and with Solids or Hydraulic or with points or S-F or D-F Ign's, they are 99% 1 kick and then Kick-ass..
Just my experience...........
 

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I have valva touch lifters in my 80 incher and solids in my 96 incher. They both do the job. I like wrenching as much as riding so adjusting makes do difference to me.

The ramp angel on a hydro cam is less aggressive than a solid lift cam.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah, I'm sure he had ta be thinkin the cam and not the crank, that just doesnt make sense. But, I've still gotten mixed opinion's about beatin hell outta the cam to. I'll probably stick with the hydro's, better safe than sorry ya know? Thank's for ya'lls input.
 

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155" R&R TwinCam
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Don't remember the cam issue since always changed cams when running solids because of the bigger motors.Makes sense I guess not being in the cam grinding business.
 

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hey Guys, Lupe here, can i join up here, ?

i am a legit member MR Fx, i just do not post a lot. period. No Particular Reason Sir,
AND. MR Dog , i reckon, or in my view, on the shovel threads here, Well, true is. we are not best buds etc, --BUT, as it were, YOU are among the few who do. well just talk with me.

MECH, solids in particular okay. I say, or acknowledge, That all the primary, or Chief issue,s and/or mech points etc has ALREADY been said. and with Class, guys, NO Joke,
i want to go to deeper, higher mech ground with ALL U MEN here on this thread,

Fellas Look, the lifter Body itself. as presented to OUR shovel Lifter Blocks, . The Oiling discussion that is so volatile, YET valid, or legit,

can i go higher, we all Know how to cheat, and reverse hydro bodys within our blocks etc, ah, Opposed feed holes etc as opposed to proper alignment IF u are to run true hydros etc,

guys please, i am dead serious here. NO BS trick chit, no ever talk Down etc. screw that . this is pure mech okay.

fellas, Why is it that 1 camp insists, that IF a shovel block, to run solids . the delivery oil feed as design/built by Mom Mo Co, should be plugged period,

even SS has white papers on this exact mod/ conversion etc.
Versus,

an XYZ amount of true Shovel Vets, period. who helped write the Book on the whole issue, and never blocked a lifter feed whole in there entire proffesional LIFE Guys,

This IS my ? to this Family here, and I ask to hold a true mech, BUT Civil converstation on this mech point.

when converting to quote Solids on a true shovel block. Plug or not plug. and GUYS most important WHY??
to me as a posting member, i have no issues or desire to choose sides. I do ask both camps the share WHY> both schools of mech thought. actual Build process etc. BUT mech sense WHY/ plug, no plug, its all good but dog gone it guys WHY? true respect pauly md
 

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ps. to be honest and fair, i really do have thoughts

i am a legit member MR Fx, i just do not post a lot. period. No Particular Reason Sir,
AND. MR Dog , i reckon, or in my view, on the shovel threads here, Well, true is. we are not best buds etc, --BUT, as it were, YOU are among the few who do. well just talk with me.

MECH, solids in particular okay. I say, or acknowledge, That all the primary, or Chief issue,s and/or mech points etc has ALREADY been said. and with Class, guys, NO Joke,
i want to go to deeper, higher mech ground with ALL U MEN here on this thread,

Fellas Look, the lifter Body itself. as presented to OUR shovel Lifter Blocks, . The Oiling discussion that is so volatile, YET valid, or legit,

can i go higher, we all Know how to cheat, and reverse hydro bodys within our blocks etc, ah, Opposed feed holes etc as opposed to proper alignment IF u are to run true hydros etc,

guys please, i am dead serious here. NO BS trick chit, no ever talk Down etc. screw that . this is pure mech okay.

fellas, Why is it that 1 camp insists, that IF a shovel block, to run solids . the delivery oil feed as design/built by Mom Mo Co, should be plugged period,

even SS has white papers on this exact mod/ conversion etc.
Versus,

an XYZ amount of true Shovel Vets, period. who helped write the Book on the whole issue, and never blocked a lifter feed whole in there entire proffesional LIFE Guys,

This IS my ? to this Family here, and I ask to hold a true mech, BUT Civil converstation on this mech point.

when converting to quote Solids on a true shovel block. Plug or not plug. and GUYS most important WHY??
to me as a posting member, i have no issues or desire to choose sides. I do ask both camps the share WHY> both schools of mech thought. actual Build process etc. BUT mech sense WHY/ plug, no plug, its all good but dog gone it guys WHY? true respect pauly md
--on this, esp where it pertains to excessive oil leaks at the Base of OUR pushrod tubes etc. When a hydro to Solid conversion Has been done Proper. BUT/ the feed hole. the series as built from our MOM is NOT quote Plugged guys, BUT again, as i strived to say, i ask for a legit mech discuss ONLY. no bullchit setups or egos or etc etc and on. NOT me style, or me heart,,, OR me ??? fellas, fair nuff. Thanks-- for real--- Just thanks. pauly md.
 

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--on this, esp where it pertains to excessive oil leaks at the Base of OUR pushrod tubes etc. When a hydro to Solid conversion Has been done Proper. BUT/ the feed hole. the series as built from our MOM is NOT quote Plugged guys, BUT again, as i strived to say, i ask for a legit mech discuss ONLY. no bullchit setups or egos or etc etc and on. NOT me style, or me heart,,, OR me ??? fellas, fair nuff. Thanks-- for real--- Just thanks. pauly md.

when you run straight hydros, how does the lifter BORE get it's oil Lupe?

when you turn the lifter body 180* AND plug the hole, how does the lifter get oil.............splash from the cam chest and drain?

i see no mechanical SENSE to plug this hole.

i've seen plenty of folks NOT have a problem......and i've seen a few HAVE problems from plugging the feed........i never plugged mine.

now i run Velvas and see no reason to ever go back to solids.....no matter what the cam. i enjoy wrenchin, but that's one adjustment i won't NEED to do on a regular.

there ya go Lupe........continue on.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If I understand the question, I think this is like an "oil" question, ask ten guy's, git ten different answer's. But, looking at it from a "mechanical point of view", there's no reason to plug the holes. The spring 'up and down motion' in hydro's not only quiet's the lifters but also act as a pump to bring oil into the case sleeve for internal lube of the lifter and as "pressure" to keep the lifter from "bottoming out" in the sleeve. If you use the conversion's, (which are nothing more than a solid sleeve that replaces the hydro lifter and spring", it is effectively "plugging" the hole since it can no longer pump oil into the sleeve. The bulk of oil that builds up in the rod cover tube comes DOWN from the rocker box drain hole and drains back into the motor through the lifter box, (hope I worded all that right, LOL)!
As for my original question, I have talked to allot of "older" mechanic's and quite a few Harley tech's on different forum's. No one has ever heard of the cam being hurt by using the solid conversion sleeves since the original lifter cases are still in use they will "ride" the cam as if the hydro's were still there.
I went ahead and "converted" my '79 Shovel and am as happy as a "pig in S**T. Quicker and easier start's and better throttle response. And, since I'm runnin Milwaukee Blaster's with "cheater baffles", I barely hear the "sewing machine clatter".
 

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155" R&R TwinCam
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Ran solids in my stroked shovels for a lot of years,honestly enjoyed the lifter noise.Used to always adjust mine when motor was cold and a lot tighter than most would run them.When the motor warmed up everything was good in my world.Hardly ever adjusted them,never beat on the bike until engine was all warmed up,then looked for street battles.
Always restricted oil to topend to give crank more,also drilled out drain holes in lifter blocks for oil to return faster to camchest.Everybody converted from hydro's to solids by lifters alone,left original roller tappets in lifter bocks.
 

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well Hi MR ShovelBill, lupe here, I want to ask permo

when you run straight hydros, how does the lifter BORE get it's oil Lupe?

when you turn the lifter body 180* AND plug the hole, how does the lifter get oil.............splash from the cam chest and drain?

i see no mechanical SENSE to plug this hole.

i've seen plenty of folks NOT have a problem......and i've seen a few HAVE problems from plugging the feed........i never plugged mine.

now i run Velvas and see no reason to ever go back to solids.....no matter what the cam. i enjoy wrenchin, but that's one adjustment i won't NEED to do on a regular.

there ya go Lupe........continue on.
==from u as a legit member here, and the rest of the guys on this thread, IF i really can. well just truly jaw the whole darn deal over,

deal is, i want to at any given time, speak directly by name to any given MAN in an attempt to give my op on there ???s. and at the same time. HOLd acivil but really go to as higher ground as possible, and speak sometimes to all u guys. all inclusive.

In simple words. This is an all time GREAT shovel mech area. Highly debated, often contested etc. i ask, yea yea yea. all of US know all that chit, seen it a hundred times over OUR years, lets all be friends, like we were standing around a short bloch shovel > in a stand. in the shop grin. ya know, us in the shop. and do away with. or forego. pride. or chit to prove or all that other chit that wastes good member time grin. i will go first in just 1 aspect to get started. MR ShovelBILL, i will say i agree with yer post. BUT, as usual, it covered aLOT of ground. mech wise. it includes mech about solids, than closes with anymore velvas and etc. which GRIN i also do believe. just spent a pretty good chunk o change on that very product BUT, i have xxx hours on solids grin. and i will NEVER LOSE my love for them. its about app on any given build. whats expected or needed etc and so on . we all know this. Tis why i ask for in depth guys. there is no 1 sound byte answer i say / respect for all here. pauly md if i am given what i ask, i think i want to ask, and or share agreat deal about. yep the oil part. it is whats pertinet i think, and each system has aHUGE effect on any given motor, Plus its just pure twin mech FUN with cool members period okay
 

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hey MR member FX rider, U are the Or poster SIR

my mouth really is respectful of and intended for YOU First y a know, but, as it were, I have run acroos for example member ShovelBill before. he also has a good mind like yours SIR. he is civil.. OUR Dog 155 is like a grandaddy vet here smile and etc . u see me point, if we want too, we can make this one of the best jaws Ever on the whole solid, hydro, shovel issue. whether to plug the stock mo co design or NOT, what happens when either school of thought is followed. and why NOT can a PROPER solid system be made to work and run strong with out sounding like a garbage can. and mech whoop the chit out of the balance of the valve train. grin,, well i believe as do MANY MANY others, it Can be done. its done all the time. they run VERY good. BUT why and HOW are bros indys making it so u see grin. come on guys i love to talk, but i am harmless poloticaly etc. i am just pauly. just an old man who loves shovels grin. and yep, the boys who still do putt them .. u bet
 

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Fellas, please, let me TRY this, an example here i see.

now remember, before we engage the clutch here, I asked if we ALL could just dismiss, or overlook pecking order, age. , None of us will be here to impress our/your view upon others etc.

we work hard, take it down deep, its okay to be real, its Not sunday school grin. Just NOT worth Losing friends over is me root point.

just 1 example. Big Dog said, or made, wht i think was a very short, but Highly critical mech point. he said etc but also, he has in past blocked, or restricted the upper, i THINK he meant our rockers, to send more to the lower, This is a KNOWN legit effective mod period.

Than mr Shovel Bill asks. IF we Plug the stock case lifter supply oil circuit. how dos OUR lifter body itself. as presented to its correnspond tappet block bore, recieve sufficent oil, ???.. u see where we go here guys, see why there is no sound bytes, ever pulled a set of lifters and blocks and they are all scored and what i call Galled to h-l-/ junk actually. what happened, Block Plugged, or unplugged.


AS MR ShovelBill pointed out. IF the stock series block oil delievery passage is BLOCKED. is there enough rotational splash from below in the cam chest. Courtesty of the breather valve. which expends its oil from the crank to the cam chest. IS in fact that enough splash oil to allow a plugged lifter passage to live.

What about the often said, drain down our pushrod tubes, i really stick me feet in the mud on that 1, i perssonally believe a shovel is not designed, or intended to use and pushrod tube oil as afactor, there is, or should be. air oli vapor, but pure oil, draining down from above. vial our tubes, that i will never agrre with grin u see. this is where i want to have fun, make new good friends and talk hard core trash on THIS subject guys grin.. no Joke respect pauly md
 

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if you go with soilds get a kit with the adjustable pushrods, NOT the adjustment on the lifter........it'll keep the pushrod geometry better, especially on the front exhaust. i used my stock pushrods with my conversion.

you can adjust your valve lash with solids and you can't with hydros.....

the easier starting thing is because there is no lifter bleed down. timing events stay consistant.
 
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