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Discussion Starter #1
bike runs great with plenty of power currently set a little rich the only prob i'm having is on a hot restart if i've been riding and stop and turn it off for a couple minutes its hard to restart. any help would be appreciated
113cu in htcc cnc heads and pistons 625 gear cams
 

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If you have the SERT add some fuel to the ''cranking fuel table'' at the temp your having a problem. If you don't know the temp add the fuel in 96c to 128c area.
 

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hey Doc! I've been thinking that part of the problem on this is the IAT sensor is on the wrong side of the throttle plate. During heat soak it goes to the moon and in some experimenting I've found that a short crank with the starter, let the IAT sense some cooler air coming in, then hit the starter again and she lights. Seems to work everytime I try it. What do you think?
 

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Totenkopf said:
hey Doc! I've been thinking that part of the problem on this is the IAT sensor is on the wrong side of the throttle plate. During heat soak it goes to the moon and in some experimenting I've found that a short crank with the starter, let the IAT sense some cooler air coming in, then hit the starter again and she lights. Seems to work everytime I try it. What do you think?
I do that exact same thing when the motor is hot. Bump the starter over and then try to start the bike.
 

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I read somwhere years ago to move the IAT to the back of the air filter plate. That might provide more accurate actual air temps, maybe.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
how much fuel to add to the table 13.1 at 96 17.9 at 128 how high should i go it seems the compression releases pop too soon
 

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I'd add 10 units from 96 C. down....if it's too much you will smell the fuel. Cranking fuel only works when the engine is cranking, as soon as it fires the extra injector time is eliminated.

If Bumping the starter works stick with it but I feel dealing with a 113'' motor it won't hurt to keep the injectors open a bit longer while cranking....if this doesn't work for you set it back to reference.
Are you using the base map 141PJ003? If so if you would remove the 14.6 at 20 kpa in your fuel table to 13.7 or 13.8 might help you too.
 

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Cabo Wabo '06
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Hot start

I have the same issue. So far nothing has broke. I experimented with the IDLE fuel (PCIII-0TP) so that the motor starts instantly-hot or cold. Having the correct air/fuel mix at start up offers the best chance of getting the motor to fire before she has a chance to kick back. About half the value my dyno guy put in.
 

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Cabo Wabo '06
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fuel and timing

hdmarsh77 said:
Namooz, would you mind sharing what you changed?
Sure Hd. For PCIII, here it is.

Cyl 1: Fuel table 1/rear cyl
OTP Fuel
500rpm: 0
750: 0
1000: 4
1250: 0
1500: 0
1750-6000: 15

Cyl 2: Fuel table 2/front cyl.
0TP Fuel
500rpm: 0
750: 0
1000: 6
1250: 0
1500: 0
1750-6000: 15

You can offset timing, too. I tried -1 ignition for cyl 1 and 0 for cyl 2 from 500rpm to 2000, all else 0's @ 0TP (timing). Difference is yet to be seen (1 day). Might try reversing all of above. Need to add that when starting up after just a few minutes-motor hot, bumping the starter quickly is a must. A 10 minute wait and she goes without the bump. Let us know how it does, and best of luck to you.
 

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Thanks a bunch, Namooz. I'll tinker around with it.

You let us know too how it goes with your bike!
 

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Cabo Wabo '06
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hot start

Jury in. Below works well, and TIMING is 0 @ 0TP for both cyl's (500rpm-infinity). Ambient temp's are dropping (10 degree's) so I don't know how much of an effect it has had, but so far so good. Pretty much instant starts hot or cold. Still, may go from .030" Cometic to 40'ish + in dead of winter.
How bout you 113Deluxe?

Cyl 1: Fuel table 1/rear cyl
OTP Fuel
500rpm: 0
750: 0
1000: 3
1250: 0
1500: 0
1750-6000: 15

Cyl 2: Fuel table 2/front cyl.
0TP Fuel
500rpm: 0
750: 0
1000: 5
1250: 0
1500: 0
1750-6000: 15
 

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Cabo Wabo '06
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hot pop

Just wanted to share some more thoughts on this. It seems simple, but I believe it can help. You can't start a Harley without gas-you can't hot start without fuel. If you dump too much in, you increase the chances of hot start by coating the plug/chamber with fuel. Finding a balance of just enough of the mix to get the job done does keep the start up misfires down. Fairly logical, simple, and workable. Maybe more emphasis should be put on start up fuel delivery instead of relying on compression release for hot start cure. Makes me wonder why Power Commander doesn't incorporate a delayed fuel delivery adj. for startup. I mean after all it's a performance system design. Just a thought.
 

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Cabo Wabo '06
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Easing hot starts

One more thing. After you turn the ingition on, let the bike set for 15-20 sec.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
added the fuel to start up workin a lot better now pretty much first shot all the time. i feel like i got a new bike
 

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How does changing the fuel at 1000 rpm OTP help the bike start?
Makes no sense to me...... If the bike is cranking and trying to start it isnt yet a 1000rpm so how does adding fuel there help?

My 06 Wide glide starts after about 3-4 turns of the starter cold or hot and I would love to have it crank right over first touch like my last bike....
When she is hot and I go to restart within 30 seconds she takes longer and yesturday she popped and I think pushed air out of the aircleaner..let her sit 3 seconds than she started?


I recently changed PC3 setting trying to lessen decel pop...I was running her at +7 at 750 and +7 at 1000 OTP...Now running at all 0 and she definitely pops less but my starting issue has not changed better or worse..

Does the PC3 have a designated start feature for adding or subtracting fuel?

Help me get my bike to start first shot....:)
 

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Cabo Wabo '06
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587 Posts
jonno said:
How does changing the fuel at 1000 rpm OTP help the bike start?
Makes no sense to me...... If the bike is cranking and trying to start it isnt yet a 1000rpm so how does adding fuel there help?

My 06 Wide glide starts after about 3-4 turns of the starter cold or hot and I would love to have it crank right over first touch like my last bike....
When she is hot and I go to restart within 30 seconds she takes longer and yesturday she popped and I think pushed air out of the aircleaner..let her sit 3 seconds than she started?


I recently changed PC3 setting trying to lessen decel pop...I was running her at +7 at 750 and +7 at 1000 OTP...Now running at all 0 and she definitely pops less but my starting issue has not changed better or worse..

Does the PC3 have a designated start feature for adding or subtracting fuel?

Help me get my bike to start first shot....:)
When you change any parameters in the PC maps, it effects the way the bike runs at different TP's and RPM's. The results are cumulative, adding/subtracting to the mix instead of just that one block's setting. This is the reason why these PC maps are so damn difficult to dial in. Try some of the above. It's the next best cure besides comp. releases.
 

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Power Commander does have a starting fuel adjustment. I don't have one, so I haven't used it...but it gives you PC guys something else to tinker with. It appears to be an across the board add or subtract and I'm not sure how well it would work at different engine temperatures. The SE Race Tuner gives you the ability to change "cranking fuel" (in injector on time in milliseconds units) at different engine temperatures, and to me that is an important feature. I ended up adding fuel at 64° C and below and subtracting fuel at 80° C and above to get instant starts.
The PC feature may not be any different than changing fuel at 0 throttle and 500 rpm, but it there if you want it.

Accessing the REV X-TEND and Start Fuel FeaturesTo access the Rev Xtend and start up fuel features open the Power Commander Control Center software. This software needs to be version 3.1.3 or newer. While the software is communicating to the PCIII hit CTRL-F on your keyboard. This will bring up a window called Power Commander Features Dialog. Check the box next to the feature that you want to enable.
Adjusting Fuel Ratios
If you check the Start-Up Fuel adjustment you will have the ability to richen or lean your fuel mixture during start-up without affecting the base map. This feature is normally only used on highly modified engines that have a hard time starting when cold.

To adjust the settings of this feature go to POWER COMMANDER TOOLS - START UP FUEL. This will give you two fields to adjust. The first field is the Percent of fuel to add or subtract during start-up. By inputting a value here you will offset the fuel by a given percentage above and beyond the stock ECM and Power Commander. The second field is the number of engine revolutions (or time) that this feature will be active for. A normal value would be around 150.
 

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Thanks Murph I will check that out this weekend...

Do you guys let the Fuel pump buzz stop before you hit the start button or do you hit it while she is buzzing?

I have always waited but the last 5 starts I hit the start button just after the fuel pump kicks on and she is starting insatntly....
 
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