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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I dropped my 2005 RKC in for its first 1000 mile check this morning. I am having a basic 95" upgrade with SE 203 cams done in order to keep it under warranty. I know, not very exciting. I also complained about the dreaded high oil consumption and told them what I had read about it here.
After tearing the bike down to the heads the mechanic had me come back and showed me what I had told him regarding the valve seals and agreed that they would change them under warranty, no problem. Well, no problem until he discovered they don't have the old seals in stock. Considering that I am just south of ButFuk, Saudi Arabia it could take quite some time to get some new, old seals.
He then said wait a minute, went in the back and came back with the news that he has a set of new SE high performance heads in stock, are you interested in them? Ummm, yes but I'm not paying full price says I, besides what about the rest of the 95" build? He is going to research it from his end, in the meantime I thought I should ask the experts here. Are the SE HP heads compatible with the stock 95" upgrade pistons and 203 cams? Should I use a different gasket for that build? I don't want really high compression because of gasoline quality around here, (sounds funny, but true) I am a quiet easy going style of driver so I don't need the last little bit of performance, but if I can save a couple of weeks of downtime without creating other problems that is what I will do.
BTW, there is nowhere around here to get headwork done, or a dyno either.
I will be using a SERT if we ever get this put back together.
Oh, maybe most importantly, do the HP heads use the same valve guides and seals as the stock heads? Am I going to end up with the same oil consuption problem?
Thanks,
John
 

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sloxl said:
I dropped my 2005 RKC in for its first 1000 mile check this morning. I am having a basic 95" upgrade with SE 203 cams done in order to keep it under warranty. I know, not very exciting. I also complained about the dreaded high oil consumption and told them what I had read about it here.
After tearing the bike down to the heads the mechanic had me come back and showed me what I had told him regarding the valve seals and agreed that they would change them under warranty, no problem. Well, no problem until he discovered they don't have the old seals in stock. Considering that I am just south of ButFuk, Saudi Arabia it could take quite some time to get some new, old seals.
He then said wait a minute, went in the back and came back with the news that he has a set of new SE high performance heads in stock, are you interested in them? Ummm, yes but I'm not paying full price says I, besides what about the rest of the 95" build? He is going to research it from his end, in the meantime I thought I should ask the experts here. Are the SE HP heads compatible with the stock 95" upgrade pistons and 203 cams? Should I use a different gasket for that build? I don't want really high compression because of gasoline quality around here, (sounds funny, but true) I am a quiet easy going style of driver so I don't need the last little bit of performance, but if I can save a couple of weeks of downtime without creating other problems that is what I will do.
BTW, there is nowhere around here to get headwork done, or a dyno either.
I will be using a SERT if we ever get this put back together.
Oh, maybe most importantly, do the HP heads use the same valve guides and seals as the stock heads? Am I going to end up with the same oil consuption problem?
Thanks,
John
As far as I understand they are offering the SE performance heads in exchange for the original heads, sounds like a good deal to me if you don't pay much more than $600 as a reference (Zanotti HD price). As to the 203's you may find yourself in ping city with the compression around 10.0 (assuming you are using the flat top pistons) and your ambient temps would make pinging even worse. So, no SE203, you need something with later intake closing and more overlap. But I hope the true experts chime in here on the cam selection.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks guys, gotta love this internet stuff...don't know how we did it before.
So, if I stay with the SE cams for warranty reasons I am looking at either 211s or 257s. In a way I wish I didn't have 21 months of warranty left!! I think we are lucky to get 91 octane gas, and it has a lot of parafin in it too (so I'm told).
I guess I need to pin them down to cost, looks like either way I am going to wait for parts to show up.
Am I right that the 211s lean towards the torque end of the power curve while the 257s are more HP/higher RPM cams? In any case the stock cams are really no good with the HP heads...???
Thanks again,
John
 

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sloxl said:
Thanks guys, gotta love this internet stuff...don't know how we did it before.
So, if I stay with the SE cams for warranty reasons I am looking at either 211s or 257s. In a way I wish I didn't have 21 months of warranty left!! I think we are lucky to get 91 octane gas, and it has a lot of parafin in it too (so I'm told).
I guess I need to pin them down to cost, looks like either way I am going to wait for parts to show up.
Am I right that the 211s lean towards the torque end of the power curve while the 257s are more HP/higher RPM cams? In any case the stock cams are really no good with the HP heads...???
Thanks again,
John
Check the dyno section, the Doc did some miracle with stock heads, but that's why he is the Doc :thumbsup:
 

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Hi John
Just curious which dealer you are referring to, not Al-Khobar? How much did they get back to you on those SE Heads (been thinking about them for my future build) Where will you purchase your SERT?
I clicked on your link in you signature, but YAHOO cannot find it; it works from your public profile - I noticed that you have left the final "l" off the end.
Hope they get it sorted for you, John :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Snowman: I'm in Jeddah but it's the same owner. I'll find out tomorrow what kind of "good deal" they will give me on the heads. I'm not holding my breath. Since the valve seals are only about $2 each, I can't imagine them offering me much off the list price. I picked up the SERT off ebay when I was home last summer.
Thanks for the heads up on my contact info, I'll take care of it next. Should only take 20 minutes on this blazing connection.
John
 

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Couple of things here......
I would go with the 204 over the 203 or the 211. 211 is not a low end cam and the 67 is really a winner with larger cubes, although not a bad choice over the 211.
Doc, I believe that the SE perf heads are 77 - 78 cc's.... at least they used to be. Let's see....carry the 9, divide by the number of days in the week, add weight of the rider, yeah, I think they are in that range.

And Vienna Hog, have some new dynos for Ariens, Troybilt, and Yardman snowthrowers if you are doing the snow competitions again this year! And as for your upcoming 107 build, I have some dynos and builds I did with the 67, Deweys Gila Monster 107 heads and various pipe combos (including the Propipe) for 107 and 114 that we did last January. Some are on his site, the rest I have here. Love that 67 on the 103 and 107 builds. You are going to have one badass build. Don't cause an avalanche when you light that sucker up!!!
 

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GRock: Snow blowing contest is on

GRock said:
Couple of things here......
I would go with the 204 over the 203 or the 211. 211 is not a low end cam and the 67 is really a winner with larger cubes, although not a bad choice over the 211.
Doc, I believe that the SE perf heads are 77 - 78 cc's.... at least they used to be. Let's see....carry the 9, divide by the number of days in the week, add weight of the rider, yeah, I think they are in that range.

And Vienna Hog, have some new dynos for Ariens, Troybilt, and Yardman snowthrowers if you are doing the snow competitions again this year! And as for your upcoming 107 build, I have some dynos and builds I did with the 67, Deweys Gila Monster 107 heads and various pipe combos (including the Propipe) for 107 and 114 that we did last January. Some are on his site, the rest I have here. Love that 67 on the 103 and 107 builds. You are going to have one badass build. Don't cause an avalanche when you light that sucker up!!!
Not to hijack the thread, but I was thinking to break the engine in on a snow blower and in the interest of public safety, yes I will stay away from the mountains.
We will put together the engine sometime mid December when all the parts are in, inspected and good to go. We cc the heads just for curiosity and they are 80 cc +/- 0.2cc, good job Dewey. That's well within testing error of that crude method. I will carefully check the stack height, in case we find too much negative deck (piston more than 0.01 " below cylinder gasket surface), we think to mill the cylinders down at the gasket surface. Would that be correct?
Do you think there is a risk of valves hitting the pistons (deep dish pistons, -10 cc) with the 0.030 Cometic? I do not have solid lifters for a TC to check clearance with claying, would have to machine some dummies.
As to to the comp, we selected 10 to have some choices for cams in case I luck out on the snowblower contest. Been thinking about a TW50 out of curiosity sometime later next year.
Any words of wisdom? Can I e-mail you for the 107 runs that are not on Dewey's site?

Thanks from Vienna
 

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sloxl said:
Oh, maybe most importantly, do the HP heads use the same valve guides and seals as the stock heads? Am I going to end up with the same oil consuption problem?
Thanks,
John
Missed that one altogether. AFAIK the SE Heads still use the larger valve stems and the pre-2005 valve seals.
 

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ViennaHog said:
Not to hijack the thread, but I was thinking to break the engine in on a snow blower and in the interest of public safety, yes I will stay away from the mountains.
We will put together the engine sometime mid December when all the parts are in, inspected and good to go. We cc the heads just for curiosity and they are 80 cc +/- 0.2cc, good job Dewey. That's well within testing error of that crude method. I will carefully check the stack height, in case we find too much negative deck (piston more than 0.01 " below cylinder gasket surface), we think to mill the cylinders down at the gasket surface. Would that be correct?
Do you think there is a risk of valves hitting the pistons (deep dish pistons, -10 cc) with the 0.030 Cometic? I do not have solid lifters for a TC to check clearance with claying, would have to machine some dummies.
As to to the comp, we selected 10 to have some choices for cams in case I luck out on the snowblower contest. Been thinking about a TW50 out of curiosity sometime later next year.
Any words of wisdom? Can I e-mail you for the 107 runs that are not on Dewey's site?

Thanks from Vienna
Can e-mail me anytime. We really took a liking to the 67 with the 107, I would go with that over the 50. Wondering why you went with a dished piston. JE or Wiseco flatops have 0 deck and get you in the comp range with an 80 cc chamber and 4 1/8 bore with a standard gasket, no? The lift on the 67 is no problem with clearance especially with a dish, but you are talking shaving the cylinder tops?? Seems to me that you shaved the heads to get the compression up, went to a dish to get it back down and are now milling the tops to get it back up again.
 

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hdmd88 said:
Its possibable they cc to that, I just wrote what S/E advertized and thats a combustion chamber of 72cc.....page 43 in the 06 catalog.:dunno:
Like I said, haven't used them in a while and, accounting for alsheimer's, syphilus, general mental retardation, and Lizzard Juice, I must be wrong. But could have sworn they USED to be in that range. Anyway, hard to trust myself anymore, anyway, as I was outside just the other day thinking that I was Saint George and was looking to slay a dragon. Don't remember too much, but a lot of neighbors claim that their dogs have been missing since then.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Just to bring everyone up to date and say thanks again.
As suspected the good deal on the high performance heads was, well, nonexistant so I am back to plan A. The good news is they found a package of -02 valve seals and were able to jump on that this morning. Something else the home office told the mechanic this morning regarding warranty and engine upgrades is that they will only cover "HD tested and approved" upgrade combinations. Pistons, Cams, and heads all have to be part of an approved package in order to keep your warranty intact. Of course they didn't send a list, so be warned if this is a consideration to those upgrading their engines. Every country has their own laws on this subject so what they said may only cover the Saudi dealers.
The bad news is my pipes still have not arrived so I may sound like a Honzuki for a while yet, shipping is murder ($$$$) over here.
:cheers:
John
 

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Hey, guys, am I missing something here? It sounds like they are saying they can replace the new style ('05) seals with the earlier style.
I didn't think that would work, thought they had to replace them with the new and improved NEW STYLE seals.... ?
 

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Here's the bulletin, looks like -02A is the new one...
Also, IIRC, the -02 part number is bucause they started using these on Sportys that year, but they were new to the TC88s in '05. So getting the -02 seals doesn't mean you are getting the old style, just the defective version of the new style. Hate to see you wair forever for the wrong parts...
 

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MegaGlide said:
Here's the bulletin, looks like -02A is the new one...
Also, IIRC, the -02 part number is bucause they started using these on Sportys that year, but they were new to the TC88s in '05. So getting the -02 seals doesn't mean you are getting the old style, just the defective version of the new style. Hate to see you wair forever for the wrong parts...
The "-02" part number, I believe, is because they came out on Buell's in 02, then sportsters in 04 and TC 05. The -02 are not considered defective and are still acceptable for use on both the sportsters and Buells. Only on the TC does the seal fail and need to be updated to the -02A, although I believe the -02A seal will replace all previous versions.
 

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OK, sorry, it was the Buell they came out on in '02, but the bottom line is that the -02 seals are NOT what he wants to get for his '05 RKC.
It's the -02A. Otherwise it'll be the same problem all over again.
 

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hdmd88 said:
John the S/E Performance heads have a 72cc combustion chamber, linked up with a cast flat top 1550 piston and stock gasket will give you 10.1:1 to 10.2:1 compression. This is a little high for a 203 cam and bad gas together, if you had 93 octain over there I wouldn't be so concerned about detonation with the 203....you might not have detonation if you do go with this combo but you will be on the edge with it. A 204 would be a better choice than the 203 in this situation.
.......
Couple of quick questions if you will:

Isn't the nominal 10:1 compression ratio with SE heads and flat tops still a bit high for the 204?

Can the 204 even take advantage of what the SE heads have to offer?
 

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MegaGlide said:
OK, sorry, it was the Buell they came out on in '02, but the bottom line is that the -02 seals are NOT what he wants to get for his '05 RKC.
It's the -02A. Otherwise it'll be the same problem all over again.
Absolutely !!

I was just trying to clarify the number designation.
 
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