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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I recently lost the inner cam chain, front cam, oil pump and cam plate. ( It all let go in Sturgis this summer) I replaced everything ( EV37 cams, Feuling Oil Pump and Cam Plate, Fueling Lifters,Crain Gear Drive, Crane Adjustable Push Rods)
Bike runs very strong. I have put a Harley Davidson oil pressure, 60psi pressure gage on it and it runs pegged , idles with around 50 psi.
The problem is if I wick the throttlefrom idel it blows the gasket out of the oil filter.
Does anyone have a solution or maybe an idea to start with? I dont think I need this much oil pressure!
 

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Highly Seasoned Rider!
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tjg358 said:
I recently lost the inner cam chain, front cam, oil pump and cam plate. ( It all let go in Sturgis this summer) I replaced everything ( EV37 cams, Feuling Oil Pump and Cam Plate, Fueling Lifters,Crain Gear Drive, Crane Adjustable Push Rods)
Bike runs very strong. I have put a Harley Davidson oil pressure, 60psi pressure gage on it and it runs pegged , idles with around 50 psi.
The problem is if I wick the throttle from idel it blows the gasket out of the oil filter.
Does anyone have a solution or maybe an idea to start with? I dont think I need this much oil pressure!
I started to respond to your post yesterday but then I saw that you have a Feuling oil pump and cam plate. I really don't know much about what the oil pressure is intended to be with those two pieces changed.

Having said that, if your bike had a stock oil pump and cam support plate I would suspect that it has a stuck oil pressure relief plunger.

On the HD TC high oil pressure is not the norm. It's also not good to have it too high. There are piston jets that are designed to actuate at about 12 psi so that there is not too much oil at idle and then, when underway, the pistons gain additional oil cooling. I would think if you have extremely high pressure and possibly too much oil flow, the engine might tend to load the sump with oil at lower speeds.....although, maybe the Feuling pump is large ehough to keep up with this. Other things like the oil filter gasket leak are also side affects.

If it were mine, I would immediately check the oil pressure relief plunger in the cam plate to see if it isn't stuck. If you can't get the pressure down, it might make you want to reconsider and possibly go to a stock cam plate for a test and then even a stock oil pump. I would also do the oil pressure test with an external oil pressure gauge of known accuracy as shown in the service manual.

I while back I installed a Baisley oil pump spring in my otherwise stock 2004 Ultra and now the oil pressure when at normal operating temperature is 8-9 psi at idle and 38-40 at 65 mph in high gear (2500 prm or so). That's really plenty of oil pressure. Roller bearing engines with tight clearances on the pistons and other internal parts like the TC's really don't need any more pressure than that.

Good luck. Hope you find the problem. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I didnt kinda thought they didnt need much pressure. OE pump went to hell when cam bearings let go. Pieces got inot oil pump. So i thought an upgrade pump would be nice while doin all the changes...
 

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Not unlike NEWUltraClassic, I too didn't want to rush to conclusion until I had some time to think about it. I too agree that the pressure relief valve may be the culprit. I'd look there first. Let us know what you find.

DLR
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
newultraclassic said:
I started to respond to your post yesterday but then I saw that you have a Feuling oil pump and cam plate. I really don't know much about what the oil pressure is intended to be with those two pieces changed.

Having said that, if your bike had a stock oil pump and cam support plate I would suspect that it has a stuck oil pressure relief plunger.

On the HD TC high oil pressure is not the norm. It's also not good to have it too high. There are piston jets that are designed to actuate at about 12 psi so that there is not too much oil at idle and then, when underway, the pistons gain additional oil cooling. I would think if you have extremely high pressure and possibly too much oil flow, the engine might tend to load the sump with oil at lower speeds.....although, maybe the Feuling pump is large ehough to keep up with this. Other things like the oil filter gasket leak are also side affects.

If it were mine, I would immediately check the oil pressure relief plunger in the cam plate to see if it isn't stuck. If you can't get the pressure down, it might make you want to reconsider and possibly go to a stock cam plate for a test and then even a stock oil pump. I would also do the oil pressure test with an external oil pressure gauge of known accuracy as shown in the service manual.

I while back I installed a Baisley oil pump spring in my otherwise stock 2004 Ultra and now the oil pressure when at normal operating temperature is 8-9 psi at idle and 38-40 at 65 mph in high gear (2500 prm or so). That's really plenty of oil pressure. Roller bearing engines with tight clearances on the pistons and other internal parts like the TC's really don't need any more pressure than that.

Good luck. Hope you find the problem. :)
I have been searching the net or a Baisley spring with no luck. Where could a guy get one of these?
 

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Infidel
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tjg358 said:
I have been searching the net or a Baisley spring with no luck. Where could a guy get one of these?
Baisley Hi-Performance
5511 N. Interstate Ave.
Portland, OR 97217
(503) 289-1251 Fax: (503) 286-4980
[email protected]


(tip o' the hat to 8-ball ;) )
 

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newultraclassic wrote: On the HD TC high oil pressure is not the norm. It's also not good to have it too high.


Is the second time I met this statement, and too high pressur is also known to not be good on bearings. But, my fault, I cannot understand how it can affect ends bearings. I know that if thy where plane (bronzine, bushings?) then they should need a good pressure to avoid metal to metal contact. Or I am wrong? I ask because since I installed the geardrive, and the zipper's shim oil by-pass, my pressure whent to 20 at idle and 50 at 3000 rpm when starting, I mean at cold. These values decreases significantly when oil temp rises (I use mobil ! 20-50) and i see about 12-14 at idle and 50 at 3500 rpm when oil reaches 180 F (could never go up because now temperatures here are about 40F and often my oil tmp stay down 170) so I am concerned having pressure too high.
Thanks for any explanation
 

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motardue said:
newultraclassic wrote: On the HD TC high oil pressure is not the norm. It's also not good to have it too high.


Is the second time I met this statement, and too high pressur is also known to not be good on bearings. But, my fault, I cannot understand how it can affect ends bearings. I know that if thy where plane (bronzine, bushings?) then they should need a good pressure to avoid metal to metal contact. Or I am wrong? I ask because since I installed the geardrive, and the zipper's shim oil by-pass, my pressure went to 20 at idle and 50 at 3000 rpm when starting, I mean at cold. These values decreases significantly when oil temp rises (I use mobil ! 20-50) and i see about 12-14 at idle and 50 at 3500 rpm when oil reaches 180 F (could never go up because now temperatures here are about 40F and often my oil tmp stay down 170) so I am concerned having pressure too high.
Thanks for any explanation
Roller bearings do not require high oil pressure for operation. In a TC oil has has the purpose of pushing oil through the piston jets for cooling, lubrication , overcoming the pressure drop in the oil filter, pressurizing the hydraulic lifters and not much else. When you look at the oil flow diagram, you'll see that oil flows through the lifters which serve as a flow controller in the system. If you increase the pressure, the oil volume going through the lifters to the top end will increase and vice versa. TC oil systems have a pressure control valve in the cam plate, that directs the oil back to the intake of the oil pump beyond a certain pressure. If you increase the pop off pressure of this valve (spring rate) oil pressure will rise to the level controlled by this valve. That is the main effect that calms down noisy lifter. As far as I understand the oil flow, increasing pressure in the system will direct more oil to the top end of the motor at a given flow rating of the pump. Whether this has any impact other than increasing the heat transfer, I am not sure. The pressure ##s you mention seem to be normal.
 

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Motardue - I put a Baisley in about 3 Months ago when I installed my 37G's and the pressure is like yours now. It'll peg the HD Guage when cold but when warm runs around 45lbs (synthetic). Same amount of blow-by thru the AC as before so no worries. Funny thing is it didn't much quite down my lifters tick tick. :dunno:
 

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Bluescb said:
Motardue - I put a Baisley in about 3 Months ago when I installed my 37G's and the pressure is like yours now. It'll peg the HD Guage when cold but when warm runs around 45lbs (synthetic). Same amount of blow-by thru the AC as before so no worries. Funny thing is it didn't much quite down my lifters tick tick. :dunno:
I also did the Baisley spring with my build when I installed my TW5-Gs. When cold my oil pressure is 60 psi. After it warms up it's like yours around 45 psi. Considering outdoor ambient and garage temps in the 40's the pressure is understandable especially running 20/50 oil. I have no oil leaks and have over 1500 mi's on the build. Nor do I have any blowby. I did notice a quieter top end though during low and moderate speed cruising. Idle after it's completely warm has a little noise. But that's to be expected with the cam and roller rockers. There is some gear noise on decel. But the whine is so faint you really have to concentrate to pick it out over the normal engine noise.
I'm very happy overall.
 

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tjg358 said:
I have put a Harley Davidson oil pressure, 60psi pressure gage on it and it runs pegged , idles with around 50 psi.
The problem is if I wick the throttlefrom idel it blows the gasket out of the oil filter.
Does anyone have a solution or maybe an idea to start with? I dont think I need this much oil pressure!
By any chance have you put your sending unit into one of the plugged holes on the oil filter mount, if so you need to remove it as these are production casting holes and are not meant for sending units or oil cooler lines. Just a thought.
 

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thank you (ViennaHg, Timbo, Bluescb) You all make me feel better. By the way I have no blowby oil. Else if my run-out has probably not been cecked (no way to swap gears here in Italy) noise of gears is absolutely fine, anyway I like this little wine, it remembers me an hungry Alfa Romeo. Valves tiketing: not so bad untill now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
BHBandit said:
By any chance have you put your sending unit into one of the plugged holes on the oil filter mount, if so you need to remove it as these are production casting holes and are not meant for sending units or oil cooler lines. Just a thought.
Oh no, I am sure I have it mounted to the right hole. I will take the bike apart right after Christmas to remidy the problem ( I have the week off)
Jut havent had a day off til then to try anything.
I want to thank everyone for the advise. I think this forum is the best.
Everyone has vital info that the dealership fails to give out.
Thank You all and have a Great Christmas!:cheers:
 

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BHBandit said:
By any chance have you put your sending unit into one of the plugged holes on the oil filter mount, if so you need to remove it as these are production casting holes and are not meant for sending units or oil cooler lines. Just a thought.

BHBandit I'm curious as to why mounting an oil pressure gauge in one of these holes is a no-no? I'm aware that these oil passages were for production purposes, but I mounted my oil pressure gauge in the galley that feeds the oil filter here and I haven't noticed any ill side effects yet. The only problem I incurred was that the plug was a beech to get out. I did this so I could leave the OEM pressure sending unit in its original location. So could you please explain?

thank you
 

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any cons in mountig it with the T plug originalli provided????the factory one is bulky but custom chrome and w&w have much better machhined ones for few buck


ggo new yers and good ridingh
 

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motardue said:
any cons in mountig it with the T plug originalli provided????the factory one is bulky but custom chrome and w&w have much better machhined ones for few buck


I don't think there are any negatives to using a T fitting like the one supplied in the kit. I mounted mine with a 90*&45* fitting direct into the oil filter mount casting hole and have it angled up and out to the right side of bike. It's tucked neatly between the frame downtube and the front headerpipe angled up and out towards the right side of the bike. I did this because I didn't want to use the bracket on the rockerbox to mount the gauge and didn't like the idea of useing the plastic line supplied, running it within inches of the exhaust (plastic+heat+vibration=brittle plastic and prone to crack) and past the sharp edges (plastic+sharp edges+vibration=oilly mess) of the cylinder cooling fines. Now I guess you could use zip ties all over to route the plastic line away from all potential danger, but that would look kinda cheap in my opinion. Many do it this way, but thats not for me.
 

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Relief plunger might be stuck. Mine was stuck in its bore. After getting it out I had to polish it so it would move freely and allow excess oil pressure (like when cold) to bleed off.
 

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H-Drider said:
BHBandit I'm curious as to why mounting an oil pressure gauge in one of these holes is a no-no? I'm aware that these oil passages were for production purposes, but I mounted my oil pressure gauge in the galley that feeds the oil filter here and I haven't noticed any ill side effects yet. The only problem I incurred was that the plug was a beech to get out. I did this so I could leave the OEM pressure sending unit in its original location. So could you please explain?

thank you
There is No reason you can not run the oil pressure gauge in the location you mention. Did you use the top or bottom hole to mount it? The bottom hole is the feed to the oil filter and would be the correct hole to use in my opinion.
 

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springer thanks for your opinion on this, and yes I did use the feed (bottom galley) to the oil filter. I'm glad you chimed in on this because you have a good rep. here and people value your advice and opinions, this may give others an option on gauge mounting that they haven't considered before. Thanks
 

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H-Drider said:
springer thanks for your opinion on this, and yes I did use the feed (bottom galley) to the oil filter. I'm glad you chimed in on this because you have a good rep. here and people value your advice and opinions, this may give others an option on gauge mounting that they haven't considered before. Thanks
Checkout post 39 on this thread (page 3). It's a bike we built.
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56026
 
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