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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys & gals, my first question to the group. My 04 Lowrider WITH a dealer installed ($700) premium oil cooler consistently runs to about 275-285, according to the oil temp digital readout, after awhile driving time. I brought it to the dealerships attention a second time after Laconia '04, after I was the reason 7 bikes had to pull over & cool off (1000 miles on bike). They previously told me that running hot was normal, don't worry unless I hit 300. Well, I shut it down at 298. I know that around 320 it starts to "misfire" on purpose to wash the cylinders down but that's not good enough. They tell me that they can't duplicate the running hot even tho I can drive 10 miles to drop it off & it's hitting 275 on a 50 degree day. I've run all day long with Sportys & another '04 Lowrider WITHOUT a cooler & I always seem to be running 25-30 degrees hotter. Anyway, I guess my question is,,, should I be concerned about the temp as much as I am or am I being anal?
ps: On initial delivery, the oil pressure gauge that the dealer installed was spewing oil all over on my drive home from the little plastic plug on the side of the gauge that popped out. It was towed back in & they replaced the gauge,,no other problems they said. Sorry so long,, thanx alot
Bill A.
 

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My 04 bagger was doing the same thing. Dealer said it was normal. Its not normal, my situation was the bike was running way to lean and naturally a hot runner. Free flowing exaust, stage 1 air intake, mobil 1 V twin syn oil, a DFO and twin Jagg coolers mounted on the downtubes. It now runs consistently around 180. Hope this helps.
 

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The temp you are seeing after short rides on 50 degree days are high. I would be concerned as well.
First question..has the actual temp that the guage is displaying been confirmed that it is correct? Maybe with a digital infrared thermometer?
 

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I would not trust the digital thingie alone, there are known issus with the accuracy. Before you go into an expensive exercise, I would check the flow through the cooler (do you have a thermostat? does it work?)by touching the hoses, they should be good and hot. Next would be the purchase of a lab thermometer to verify the readings of the the digital thingie and if that turns out OK,oil circulation check would be in order.

just my $0.02
 

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BacaBill,

Something to keep in mind. The dealer will say it's "normal" because that is the way the bike was designed to run. My understanding is that the TwinCam was originally designed to be a 95" engine. But in order to meet EPA requirements, the engineers brought it down to 88" and built the engine to run REALLY HOT to burn off all exhaust gasses. HD also made the engine run really lean, and then designed the heads to flow slowly and retain heat to assist in the clean burning process. Then they retarded the timing and added knock sensors so the bike won't spark knock from being lean and running hot.

This is why folks add some sort of fuel injection gizmo, a TFI/DFO, SERT/PowerCommander, or what not to add more fuel. This helps with the lean running issue. Some go one step further and get head work so the head flows better and runs cooler. Beyond that comes camshafts which helps the engine breath better. By the time most folks take the heads off and add cams, the add on the 95" package too.

Mark
 

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BacaBill said:
Ok guys & gals, my first question to the group. My 04 Lowrider WITH a dealer installed ($700) premium oil cooler consistently runs to about 275-285, according to the oil temp digital readout, after awhile driving time. I brought it to the dealerships attention a second time after Laconia '04, after I was the reason 7 bikes had to pull over & cool off (1000 miles on bike). They previously told me that running hot was normal, don't worry unless I hit 300. Well, I shut it down at 298. I know that around 320 it starts to "misfire" on purpose to wash the cylinders down but that's not good enough. They tell me that they can't duplicate the running hot even tho I can drive 10 miles to drop it off & it's hitting 275 on a 50 degree day. I've run all day long with Sportys & another '04 Lowrider WITHOUT a cooler & I always seem to be running 25-30 degrees hotter. Anyway, I guess my question is,,, should I be concerned about the temp as much as I am or am I being anal?
ps: On initial delivery, the oil pressure gauge that the dealer installed was spewing oil all over on my drive home from the little plastic plug on the side of the gauge that popped out. It was towed back in & they replaced the gauge,,no other problems they said. Sorry so long,, thanx alot
Bill A.
First check your digital gauge. Mine was off 17 degrees to the hot side. Water boils at 212 degrees so boil some water and stick the end of the guage in.

I will also guess you are running way lean. Add gas.

Check oil cooler. Easy to do. Just ride the bike until oil temp is over 200 degrees. I believe the built in temp module for the oil cooler starts to flow oil oil through the cooler when temps hit 180 degrees. SO just touch the oil cooler with your leather gloves on. If hot, oil flow through cooler is working.

Finally add a good syn. oil.

Good Luck
 

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BacaBill said:
My 04 Lowrider WITH a dealer installed ($700) premium oil cooler
A 700 dollar oil cooler? Holy crap!!:wacko:
 

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Concur with all the above -- esp. re confirming the accuracy of your thermometer -- the water-boiling suggestion is a great one.

Couple other things: in general, suggest you start looking at the simple things first -- after checking your gauge, check the thermostat, etc. Not meaning to state the obvious, but I'd check the oil to see that it's full. Sounds dumb, but if you're going to the dealer for everything - they miss things. A dealer overfilled mine once and has done/overlooked other things you would never suspect.

I think I'd do all I could to stay out of the dealership...

Finally, I'll make an unsolicited comment -- I often have zero time and enough money to pay for whatever service. But -- after paying what seemed to be a lot, and getting poor quality work -- I started making time to do the routine things I can and learning to do others. There are some real good indes around that take pride in their work and who I don't mind paying when there are things beyond me. For me - it wasn't so much the cost as it was for the cost + shoddy work from two different dealers.

I researched, bought and installed a Jagg oil cooler -- the same one HD sells -- and it was actually pretty simple. I am slow, did it during an oil change - and I want to say it took less than two hours start to finish. Again - I am slow and methodical because I'm usually learning as I go along. The oil cooler was around $178 - I did not spring for a thermostat. That plus two hours of my time is what it cost.

Not my biz and not being critical of you - but you overpaid by a huge amount for an oil cooler and if you're okay with that - that's your biz. If not - you might think about getting the service and parts manuals - for around $75 -- and doing your own routine maintenance and installation work. You got a major haircut...
 

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Good advice

Like everyone has said.

1) Check the accuracy of the gauge. I filled a cup with water and checked the temp. with a known accurate thermometer. Then the dipstick gauge. Mine was on the high side 2-4*.

2) Check your carb or FI settings. My temps will go up 10* with a leaner needle, but nowhere near 300*. I've approached 250* once, but only after riding @ 85 for 1/2 hour on a 95* day.
 

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I also checked the calibration of my LCD dipstick. It was around 15 degrees hotter than my calibrated thermometer using boiling water.
 

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Hi temps with cooler

My stock except for "accidentally" punched out muffler baffles '01 FXDWG with the digital thermometer never read over 235 even in 80+ degree stop and go. No cooler at all. No need per the temp gauge.

The simplest solution is often the correct one. Do you have enough oil? TC's spray the underside of pistons which heats up the oil, and the oil will only take so much heat per quart. Less oil = more heat per quart.

Second level is to follow the advice of those who suggest the cooler might not be flowing. There is no reason for your temps to approach 300 degrees unless you're sitting and sitting in very hot weather.

Don't know your dealer, of course, but the service writer doesn't sound especially concerned. I'd try a call to HD customer relations if this problem doesn't go away. Unless you are a top fuel dragster who rebuilds every 1/8 mile or so.
 

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BacaBill, that makes no sense. This is my experience: to mount an oil cooler on the bike is an excellent idea. I already mounted the one on my 2001 H-D Road King Classic several years ago. So, the regular working temperature of the stock bike without oil cooler is about 230 degrees F (about 120 degrees C). With my H-D oil cooler, during the hottest summer days and during parades, the tempereature of my engine is never higher than (max!) 170-200 degrees F (95-110 degrees C) !

P.S.
1. The hottest summer day in our "territory" means 75-90 degrees F (42 - 50 degrees C)
2. I use regular H-D 20W50 oil
3. Of course, I read the temperature on the H-D oil temperature dipstick

OIL COOLER = STRONGLY RECOMMENDED !

emirharley
"Sarajevo Bikers Club" MC
www.sarajevobikersclub.ba
-----------------------------------------------------
2001 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic FLHRCI HDI EFI
Screamin' Eagle Stage One Kit
RevTech DFO Stealth Performance System
Screamin' Eagle Performance Mufflers
(Set two: Wild Pig Pipes, 2" baffles)
Ape Hanger
Back Rest
Kuryakyn Spider Light
...
et cetera
..
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Thanx to all that responded. I was away for a week. Just to clarify a couple things,,,
1) $700 = $369 part + $300 labor + tax (installed prior to new delivery, requested by me) with the thermostat in the filter housing.
2) I can't change carb jets 'cause it's EFI, but I would like some recomendations on the "tuners" that are offered because they all seem to claim the same things but are very very different in price.
3) I've had the Harley synthetics since the 500 service.
4) I have both Service manual & Electrical manual for the bike.

What are you guys running as far as "tuners" go?
Also, what would be the next performance mod? I've got SEpipes, the K&N air filter, Stage I or II (not sure) download because of the different pipes. Actually has Sampson baffles (like the sound better) inside the SE double barrel pipes.
Thanx again,
Bill A.
 

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I concur with the 700 for a cooler. HOLY CRAP. You shouldn't have paid that even with the install. 300 for an install is rediculous. I would definitely call that place the "Stealer" and not a dealer. Secondly I don't think your thermostat is opening up allowing oil to flow. That is why I have decided to go with a non-thermostat built in Jagg Cooler and an inline theromostat by Jagg that I can turn off till the engine warms up and then turn it on. Last but not least, you must be running way lean. Have you done the stage 1 download or checked into adding a SERT?
 

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I invested a lot of time in order to learn more about tunning and EFI issues. I learned a lot, first of all thanks to the gurus of this forum.

So, if you intend to do (or already have) relatively modest upgrade, i.e. aftermarket air cleaner (H-D SE Stage One or Big Sucker or Kuryakyn Hypercharger....) and aftermarket exhoust/mufflers, the best possible idea is to purchase RevTech DFO (Digital Fuel Optimizer). Easy to use - excellent results. AND - EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SUPPORT VIA E-MAIL/INTERNET !!!

If you intend to go further with your upgrades, you will find out that the Harley-Davidson's SERT program will be good option, too. But only if you intend to create powerful monster. Otherwise, the DFO will work perfect on your bike.

All the best!

emirharley
"Sarajevo Bikers Club" MC
www.sarajevobikersclub.ba
-----------------------------------------------------
2001 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic FLHRCI HDI EFI
Screamin' Eagle Stage One Kit
RevTech DFO Stealth Performance System
Screamin' Eagle Performance Mufflers
(Set two: Wild Pig Pipes, 2" baffles)
Ape Hanger
Back Rest
Kuryakyn Spider Light
...
et cetera
..
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok, thanx again for the feedback. Emirharley, with the RevTech, it sounds like a pretty simple "hookup", once I find the room for it under the seat. Am I correct in thinking that it would still need to be "dynoed" to get the best results? Seems like for a $120 (Ebay) part, it could add up to a few hundred in dyno labor.
Thanx all.
Bill A.
 

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NO, YOU DO NOT NEED TO DYNO your bike since the DFO is easy thing to use, and forget all additional expenses: US$120 - US$ 150, if you are lucky US$ 80 on e-Bay for the DFO, and - THAT IS ALL! All you need is to follow suggested recommendation(s) for your "configuration" (bike model, aftermarket air filter, mufflers et cetera...). In addition to this, you can "play" a little bit with your DFO using screwdriver in order to get better results, if you'd like to have something different. But, the recommended settings are very good and very acceptable. You will be very pleased.

Be sure to purchase DFO FI-1040ST (STEALTH !) model. This module fits 1996 to 2005 EFI big twin. This is a complete plug and play, there is no splicing of the fuel injector connectors.


Also, it is very important to visit this Forum's two DFO threads (http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18178 and http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56463, I suggest to "go" to Archive of this Forum, it is easier to read the posts), where you can find hundreds of questions and answers related to the DFO. After I had read all these threads and posts, and had asked gurus of this Forum the number of questions, I decided not to buy Power Commander of SERT, but RevTech or Techlusion DFO (the same "machine", diffrent names for various distributors).

ALSO, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO VISIT DOBECK'S WEB SITE AT http://www.dobeckperformance.com/forum/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=34 (EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE RELATED TO THE DFO !!!) and to ask for recommended settings for your specific "configuration".

Suggested locations are as follows: Touring-behind the right hand frame side cover or under the seat; Softail and Dyna - under seat.

Enjoy the life, enjoy your bike and have a great time!

Best

emirharley
"Sarajevo Bikers Club" MC
www.sarajevobikersclub.ba
-----------------------------------------------------
2001 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic FLHRCI HDI EFI
Screamin' Eagle Stage One Kit
RevTech DFO Stealth Performance System
Screamin' Eagle Performance Mufflers
(Set two: Wild Pig Pipes, 2" baffles)
Ape Hanger
Back Rest
Kuryakyn Spider Light
...
et cetera
..
.
 

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revtech dfo 1996 rk

Pleae help. I've searched the archives and averaged over 20 posted settings for DFO with various mods. The average settings were G-2.72; Y-4.2; R-3.84; RPM-4.7
Just installed the DFO on my 1996 RK, high flow air,AndrewsEV-27 cam, Jims lifters,Bub pipes. I get it back from mechanic today after these installs. Have not ran the bike yet. Do these settings sound appropriate?
 

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Are you running after market pipes??? Do you have a tunning device?Have you upgraded the A/C unit???Has the bike been tuned???
 
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