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Discussion Starter #1
Are the maps for Harley's Stage I and II published anywhere? I've put a K&N filter and D&D interceptor pipes on and I'm using the PC III with the M812-003 map on my 07 FLHTCU. (Problem is,) when I was checking everything out in my dimly lit garage, I noticed the rear cylinder headpipe was glowing red hot.

(1) Do I need to reprogram the Harley Davidson ECM with one of HD's maps in addition to the Power Commander?
(2) Are there any other trusted map sites for the PC III other than Power Commander?
(3) Anyone else notice a glowing headpipe (in the dark)?

I live in Korea -not by choice- and do all the work on my bikes because the Harley Davidson techs here SUCK-ASS. Plus, I'll be damned if I let a Korean work on my bike.
 

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Spoker said:
Are the maps for Harley's Stage I and II published anywhere? I've put a K&N filter and D&D interceptor pipes on and I'm using the PC III with the M812-003 map on my 07 FLHTCU. (Problem is,) when I was checking everything out in my dimly lit garage, I noticed the rear cylinder headpipe was glowing red hot.

(1) Do I need to reprogram the Harley Davidson ECM with one of HD's maps in addition to the Power Commander?
(2) Are there any other trusted map sites for the PC III other than Power Commander?
(3) Anyone else notice a glowing headpipe (in the dark)?

I live in Korea -not by choice- and do all the work on my bikes because the Harley Davidson techs here SUCK-ASS. Plus, I'll be damned if I let a Korean work on my bike.
It can be from being too rich and burning fuel in the pipe as well as it being too lean. You need to get a handle on what the actual air fuel ratio is.
 

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I assume you’re glowing at idle. If I were you (since you probably don’t have access to a sniffer in Korea) I would hook the laptop to the power commander fixture and add some fuel to the idle cell (0 throttle/1000rpm). Try the number 5 and upload to the unit. Check the headpipe. Keep incrementing the number and checking the headpipe. If it improves, you’re going in the right direction. If not, go the other way… -5. Not the perfect fix, but better than nothing. Good Luck.
 

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one other thing, if the advance is retarded too much, it will also light the fuel late and cause it to burn in the pipe.
 

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Pretty typical.

Rear cylinder is getting no cooling sitting there at idle.

Bright red = lean
Blood red = rich.

Try this:
Put a BIG fan aiming at the right side of the machine for cooling.
Open the PCIII map file, highlight the 0~1500 rpm range in the 0 throttle position cells.
Hit page up 3 times, make notes in the bottom of the page of what you did and save, then send map. Note the idle and notice the headpipe, if things look better go for a test ride and note the bottom end if it is better, worse or no change.
Paging up will increase fuel to that particular TP/RPM only.
You can always go back, read your notes and reverse what you did if it is not better.

This should possibly help.
Also, Korean fuel must really suck...........





Spoker said:
Are the maps for Harley's Stage I and II published anywhere? I've put a K&N filter and D&D interceptor pipes on and I'm using the PC III with the M812-003 map on my 07 FLHTCU. (Problem is,) when I was checking everything out in my dimly lit garage, I noticed the rear cylinder headpipe was glowing red hot.

(1) Do I need to reprogram the Harley Davidson ECM with one of HD's maps in addition to the Power Commander?
(2) Are there any other trusted map sites for the PC III other than Power Commander?
(3) Anyone else notice a glowing headpipe (in the dark)?

I live in Korea -not by choice- and do all the work on my bikes because the Harley Davidson techs here SUCK-ASS. Plus, I'll be damned if I let a Korean work on my bike.
 

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ohiomotoxer said:
highlight the 0~1500 rpm range in the 0 throttle position cells.
Hit page up 3 times, make notes in the bottom of the page of what you did and save, then send map. Note the idle and notice the headpipe,
Even better.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Reduced the glow. It was blood red, but when I increased the fuel an additional 4, the glow ceased. I also reduced the color by changing the timing +5, but changed it back to 0 because of detonation when the throttle was snapped open. It looks much better now, but I still need to tweek a bit
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't know what to make of the fuel. I get fuel from the US Army base. There are three octanes 92, 95, and 98. In my 05 Springer, I've run the 98, but get backfiring when I let off the throttle. 92 runs much better. They might refine it because of their pollution problem. The 98 looks like Sunoco 98 did back in the 70's in the states. We use to call it "white" gas.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I took it for a 30 minute ride, still glowing. I will take it to the bloodsuckers and have them reprogram the ECM and use that as a base. No sense in Fing up a new bike.
 

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Spoker said:
I took it for a 30 minute ride, still glowing. I will take it to the bloodsuckers and have them reprogram the ECM and use that as a base. No sense in Fing up a new bike.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Talked to a guy at Dynojet today. He's told me to use map 0812-030. I think I'll try that and if little or no improvement, I'll use that 98 octane and see if the fuel will burn a little cooler.
 

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True white gas is uncracked gas, refined without a cat cracker or hydro cracker(unit for making gasolene more uniform). This fuel is about 83 octane, it was what model T's and model A's used. Gasolene is colored to differenciate between grades. Gas with no lead or coloring is white or clear in color. The 98 you can buy there burns much slower. In order to make proper use of it, you would need a dyno to tune properly and have the correct build. If you insist on using it, try advancing the ignition about 4 degrees across the board.

The 95 should work well or else try the 92. A mix of the 2 would probably be best.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
route66paul said:
True white gas is uncracked gas, refined without a cat cracker or hydro cracker(unit for making gasolene more uniform). This fuel is about 83 octane, it was what model T's and model A's used. Gasolene is colored to differenciate between grades. Gas with no lead or coloring is white or clear in color. The 98 you can buy there burns much slower. In order to make proper use of it, you would need a dyno to tune properly and have the correct build. If you insist on using it, try advancing the ignition about 4 degrees across the board.

The 95 should work well or else try the 92. A mix of the 2 would probably be best.
Thanks so much. I changed the values in the power commander fuel tables from O to 110 and added 8 degrees of timing. That is what it took to keep the headpipes from glowing.Wish I could go back to a carb. My 05 runs so much better that this thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
HD-Monster-Torq said:
You mean this:



A stock 2008 Touring, cruising on the dyno with very low load at 50 m/h.

Wow! I can't wait for the law-suit and HD - you know its coming!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I am leaning hard to the Thundermax complete system. Now, I'm in the research phase (saving money) and I like what I'm seeing. I can't find anything about the Thundermax adjusting the timing - does it even adjust it?

(The PC III is working, but I have to run it too rich to keep it cool. And I don't like the idea of having to defeat the O2 sensors)
 

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HD-Monster-Torq said:
You mean this:



A stock 2008 Touring, cruising on the dyno with very low load at 50 m/h.
Well, looking at the bright side of things… you won’t have to carry a cigarette lighter.
 

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Spoker said:
I am leaning hard to the Thundermax complete system. Now, I'm in the research phase (saving money) and I like what I'm seeing. I can't find anything about the Thundermax adjusting the timing - does it even adjust it?

(The PC III is working, but I have to run it too rich to keep it cool. And I don't like the idea of having to defeat the O2 sensors)
The ignition timing is only adjustible manually on the TMax w/AutoTune. Only the Air/Fuel Ratio is tuned automatically. Their base maps do a good job of getting you in the ball park. The great thing is that it will maintain the AFR even though conditions vary, like load or ambient temperature. It is a pretty simple system to learn and tune.

I'm not sure about this, but I believe the Daytona Twin Tec, another closed loop system, does autotune the ignition timing as well as AFR. It costs about the same as the TMax w/AT, but from what I read it sounds like it is more difficult to set up and adjust than the TMax. I also noticed more negative comments from the DTT users than I picked up from the TMax users, although that may have been stimulated by the more difficult setup.
 
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