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Discussion Starter #1
Hey folks,I have a bit of a problem that I hope gets worked out,but wanted to give a "Heads up" to the fine folks here anyways.
I bought an 06 wide glide and installed Vance and Hines Big shots and a Doherty Power Pacc air cleaner.Parts recommended by the tuner guy at Moroneys HD in NY.I also purchased a SERT to more or less future proof myself for any further upgrades I may decide to do later on.
Anyways the Dyno tuner at Moroneys always seemed to be backed up for weeks so I ran a canned map off the CD,which seemed OK for the time being.I got in touch with JamieWG about a map he had offered on a few sites as well as this one.I also asked for advise on tuning my own map without a dyno.He told me what to change and what to leave alone,All was good,but I always wondered if it could get better.
I went to www.hdmaps.com and they happened to have a map for sale that matched my configuration except for the air cleaner setup.The set they had was tuned for the Screaming Eagle air cleaner but being they both used a K&N style filter,I figured it would be closer than what I had,because it had been tuned on a dyno.
I paid my $69.99 and downloaded the map,installed it into the ECM and took it for a spin.The bike bucked and surged at all throttle positions above 1/4 throttle.When I got it warmed up and took it to 55 it did smooth out a bit,although it still ran like hell.As soon as I let off the throttle,it sounded like someone kicked a steel trash can down a flight of stairs.It didnt POP it friggin BANGED!!
I took the bike home and reloaded the map I had bought.Same result.I reloaded the map I had made and all was ok again,so I knew it wasnt something else.I emailed hdmaps.com and got a responce from Matt Gross with another map to try.I downloaded it and installed it in the bike.Same result if not worse.I emailed them again and told them the problems with the map.I recieved another email asking the parts that I had installed on the bike.I told Mr.Gross that the map described matched my setup and that I thought I was getting a map made on a dyno,not something cooked up by the seat of the pants.I was told it was impossible to make a map without a dyno.
I then emailed Mr.Gross and told them that I did understand that with this sort of media,its impossible to know if Im stealing a map or actually having problems.I also stated that I would send MY MAP to him and let him try that one as the one he had sucked so bad(I stated it nicer BTW)
I then recieved a call and got into a rather lengthy (and heated) conversation with Mr Gross about the map.I told him that the map was so far off it couldnt be attributed to weather conditions and such,and that I felt I had recieved a defective product.He told me he was running the same map on a softail and it ran fine.I bought a map for a Dyna wide glide not a softail and was told there was no difference.News to me.If there is no difference then why is there two different sections for the two models of bikes on the site and also on the SERT CD?
Dosent jibe well with me at all.I was then told that I wouldnt be charged for the map and all was OK.
I am now disputing the charge with the card company as MMG Management (hdmaps.com's company) chooses to charge me anyway.I emailed MrGross about the charge and havent recieved a responce.Still in dispute with Master card over the charge.
I did get the bike dynoed sence then and it runs great.
 

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You might want to mention to him the 06 Dyna line used 02 sensors and the softails did not, although there are maps on the cd that can be used in both in open loop. The whole idea of selling maps is one of the biggest ripoffs I have ever seen, every bike is different, even with the same build. I can't imagine the money they make off of people who just don't know any better and run their bike even if it sounds like crap. Good luck in getting your money back. I would get him on the phone again if I were you.
 

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Just Wanna Ride
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A couple of years ago, I too purchased a map for HDMAPs.com, as they advertised a map which was an exact match to my bike's configuration. My experience was very similar to yours. To be perfectly honest, the bike ran like crap. Called HDMAPs, explained the problem. They promptly sent another map which when loaded, ran no better than the original map that they had sent. I doubt these maps are created on a dyno, or they would be much closer. I can understand them being a little off, but the two that I received weren't even close. After doing much research on this site, I took the SERT map closest to my configuration and kept tweaking it, a little at a time. Haven't had it dyno'ed but it runs pretty good.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Like I had said in the post,I have sence dynoed the bike but before i did I was running a map I had tuned from info recieved from JamieWG.I took a canned map from the SERT cd and made a few adjustments.I included a copy of the dyno chart from Moroneys hd to show the improvment.As you can see the AFR was almost as good as what was achieved on a dyno.The red line is pre tuning and the3 blue is after tuning.
Not too bad for my first try.
 

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Sorry to hear of your troubles. Curious about how Mr. Gross can prevent his map, if it was any good which evidently it was not, from being copied and shared with others having similar builds.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
That is one problem I had mentioned to him when we talked over the phone.I mentioned that I did understand that there was no way to tell if I was BSing him or not other than to tell him I would send him MY map that I tuned myself and see if he could find the discrepencies.
Ya see,if it were a slight problem with the map,such as a hesitation or surge,perhaps a decel pop I could definately see his concern.This was WAY OFF BASE with the map he described.I mean just how much difference could temps and humidity make if the variables are close to being the same???
Now I hear from the card company that I will have to prove that the map was defective in order to recieve a refund.
I asked and was told I would need a certified Harley mechanic to verify that the map was defective before they would process the dispute.Now how the mechanic could tell what map I was installing is beyond me,its just more bullshit to wade through when you think your covered...
Ive left messages on Mr Gross's mmachine and sent him emails and have yet to recieve a responce.
If your in AZ and happen upon Matt Gross,slap the dog will ya?
 
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