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Government needs to bailout Motor Cycle manufacturers

8817 Views 160 Replies 42 Participants Last post by  scottq60, 
F
Just kidding.

Is it right for the government to bail out the Automakers, and not all the other businesses?

Granted: if the automakers die so do the steelmakers and all the smaller supporting industries. However, where do we draw the line?

Why don't the government just give everybody money to buy a new car? LOL That would save the auto industry!

Perhaps if the Auto execs didn't get paid so much?
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NJ RIFF RAFF
You just blew my entry on the last thread! LOL.
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M
Bail out small business

Small business still employs something like 80% of all people in this country, and yet we continue to throw money at these large corporations an big money firms. Makes no sense.
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J
As long as they don't take the corperate jet to DC. with their hand out
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scottq60
Yeah...and why do they need to COME BACK with a plan??? Why didn't they bring a plan the first time. No wonder they're failin'!!!!

Is that just Congress' way of trying to humble the big 3's CEO's???? Then when they come back they're gonna act like they gotta good plan and Congress'll give 'em the 25+ billion.

Then once they have the big check in hand...they'll get back on their private jets, moon DC as they lift off from Reagan National...then head back home to business as usual...sickening....
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MilesToGo
I heard a comment on the news today that made sense. Have Oprah give everyone money to buy a new car. Case closed.
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newultraclassic
Bread Line '29!

Faast Ed said:
Just kidding.

Is it right for the government to bail out the Automakers, and not all the other businesses?

Granted: if the automakers die so do the steelmakers and all the smaller supporting industries. However, where do we draw the line?

Why don't the government just give everybody money to buy a new car? LOL That would save the auto industry!

Perhaps if the Auto execs didn't get paid so much?
Click to expand...
If the big three automakers go out of business, it will start a chain reaction of unemployment and welfare payments the likes of which has not been seen in modern US history. The events of 1929 will pale in comparison.

I'm not certain about the numbers of jobs to be lost but I heard on the news today that it might be in the neighborhood of 3,000,000 jobs. I'm talking about auto line employees, suppliers, management, car dealers, suppliers and other vendors. The further effect on services and retail businesses in areas where people are laid off cannot even be calculated.

You think you've seen and heard about foreclosures and retail business support failures? Hang onto your hat!

From what I just heard today, it looks like the Congress is going to let the car makers slide. If they do, there will be bread lines on the street in 90 days. If they let the car makers go, there will be hell to pay.

Just in Sacramento alone, 12 car dealers have gone out of business in the past 6 months. Just like the real estate issue, there is no credit in order for them to sell cars. In my area alone, three Ford dealers and a Saturn dealer are gone in the past 90 days.

It's easy to blame the car makers for poor management but the credit crisis is world wide at this time. Countries in Europe are approaching a depression.

Keep a close eye on the new democratic president and his mostly democratic Congress. That's a job I wouldn't want, especially with no experience.
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motrhd
Undecided

I'm not in favor of a bailout if the CEO's aren't willing to take pay cuts and sell the jets. Fomoco CEO said he was fine with his 9.3 mill a year. Also 1 out of 10 jobs in the U S is automotive related.
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newultraclassic said:
From what I just heard today, it looks like the Congress is going to let the car makers slide. If they do, there will be bread lines on the street in 90 days. If they let the car makers go, there will be hell to pay.
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While we might be able to absorb the financial collapse of just one of the Big Three domestic auto makers, he is right: a total financial collapse of the U.S. auto industry would have an incalculable ripple effect on the overall economy. About 1 in 10 U.S. jobs are in the auto industry or one of the industries supporting it. So, using "fuzzy math", that would be potentially an additional ten percent unemployment on top of the existing unemployment figure. Not at all encouraging.



newultraclassic said:
Keep a close eye on the new democratic president and his mostly democratic Congress. That's a job I wouldn't want, especially with no experience.
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It doesn't matter in the long run who won the Presidential race...whomever it was going to be was going to inherit a nightmare. What I don't understand is how so many people are looking to President-elect Obama to single-handedly "deliver us from evil". Talk about a messiah complex! In the end, Obama is just a man who will certainly do his best, but the expectations set upon him by the public at large are so profoundly unrealistic, there will be many, many people in four to eight years who are going to be just a profoundly disappointed and disillusioned. I just pray that I am wrong.




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jim t said:
As long as they don't take the corperate jet to DC. with their hand out
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That's just the problem, Jim....they did.

What do you think it cost their companies to fly from the Detroit area to Washington, D.C. just one-way using the corporate jets? The cost of the fuel alone must be staggering!

It would have been far, far cheaper for them to fly commercial. Even in first-class it would have been a huge cost savings!

That being said, I doubt we would ever see the CEO of one of the Big Three auto makers flying coach on a commercial flight...but if things keep going the way they are, they will not have a choice! :whistle:



Cheers
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newultraclassic said:
Keep a close eye on the new democratic president and his mostly democratic Congress. That's a job I wouldn't want, especially with no experience.
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What's strange is the Dem Congress and Obama are the ones for the bailout, Bush is saying "too bad - go away."

Prog Rocker said:
What do you think it cost their companies to fly from the Detroit area to Washington, D.C. just one-way using the corporate jets?
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$20,000 according to most estimates. But hey - you don't expect THEM to cut back, do you?? Ken Lay said it best - it is "difficult to turn off that lifestyle like a spigot"
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1
Canada , Mexico and all other countries where the big three are employing or purchacing from, Must also pitch in !
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T
I just thought it was funny that the CEOs went to Washington begging for money to bail out their companies, and took MILLION DOLLAR PRIVATE JETS:hystria:
They have to be the most retarded people I've seen, and then when asked to take a salary cut out of good faith... THEY REFUSED
Let them fail.... Their EGOS WILL BE TO BLAME
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T
newultraclassic said:
If the big three automakers go out of business, it will start a chain reaction of unemployment and welfare payments the likes of which has not been seen in modern US history. The events of 1929 will pale in comparison.

I'm not certain about the numbers of jobs to be lost but I heard on the news today that it might be in the neighborhood of 3,000,000 jobs. I'm talking about auto line employees, suppliers, management, car dealers, suppliers and other vendors. The further effect on services and retail businesses in areas where people are laid off cannot even be calculated.

You think you've seen and heard about foreclosures and retail business support failures? Hang onto your hat!

From what I just heard today, it looks like the Congress is going to let the car makers slide. If they do, there will be bread lines on the street in 90 days. If they let the car makers go, there will be hell to pay.

Just in Sacramento alone, 12 car dealers have gone out of business in the past 6 months. Just like the real estate issue, there is no credit in order for them to sell cars. In my area alone, three Ford dealers and a Saturn dealer are gone in the past 90 days.

It's easy to blame the car makers for poor management but the credit crisis is word wide at this time. Countries in Europe are approaching a depression.

Keep a close eye on the new democratic president and his mostly democratic Congress. That's a job I wouldn't want, especially with no experience.
Click to expand...
The auto makers are not going out of business, the truth is they will file for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy reorganization just like the airlines did, which means they will still be making cars. The workers and retirees will get screwed (along with taxpayers) but they ain't going out of business. The thing that will hurt the auto business, even with a bailout, is lack of demand, ie. declining sales. Folks are tightening their belts and hunkering down and that means a lot of businesses are going to be hurting from the big auto makers to the local small business. No bailout can prevent that.
Chapter 11 explained:
"Federal bankruptcy laws govern how companies go out of business or recover from crippling debt. A bankrupt company, the "debtor," might use Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code to "reorganize" its business and try to become profitable again. Management continues to run the day-to-day business operations but all significant business decisions must be approved by a bankruptcy court."
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UpstateFella
Maybe Mexico might see the demand for bringing these beauties back...



~uf
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newultraclassic
CherokeeTad said:
The auto makers are not going out of business, the truth is they will file for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy reorganization just like the airlines did, which means they will still be making cars. The workers and retirees will get screwed (along with taxpayers) but they ain't going out of business. The thing that will hurt the auto business, even with a bailout, is lack of demand, ie. declining sales. Folks are tightening their belts and hunkering down and that means a lot of businesses are going to be hurting from the big auto makers to the local small business. No bailout can prevent that.
Chapter 11 explained:
"Federal bankruptcy laws govern how companies go out of business or recover from crippling debt. A bankrupt company, the "debtor," might use Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code to "reorganize" its business and try to become profitable again. Management continues to run the day-to-day business operations but all significant business decisions must be approved by a bankruptcy court."
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And if they do go bankrupt in Chapter 11, what will that do to consumer confidence? It will kill the rest of their sales. That's the wordt thing they could do.
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scottq60
So at what point do the bailouts stop? Does the government end up owning everything? Oh, that's right...they already do. It's a little thing called "right of imminent domain" or something like that.

I LOVE this country....no one should doubt that. I gave 20 years of my life defending her...and I would do it all over again - but this whole mess is starting to get just a little worrisome...
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Pikeslayer
Faast Ed said:
Just kidding.

Is it right for the government to bail out the Automakers, and not all the other businesses?

Granted: if the automakers die so do the steelmakers and all the smaller supporting industries. However, where do we draw the line?

Why don't the government just give everybody money to buy a new car? LOL That would save the auto industry!

Perhaps if the Auto execs didn't get paid so much?
Click to expand...
It makes me sick when people play this class warfare game. If you have a problem with how much money someone makes then you are obviously against the American dream. Be mad at the CEO because his company is failing, not because he makes what you think is too much. Be mad at the board that elected him.

motrhd said:
I'm not in favor of a bailout if the CEO's aren't willing to take pay cuts and sell the jets. Fomoco CEO said he was fine with his 9.3 mill a year. Also 1 out of 10 jobs in the U S is automotive related.
Click to expand...
Prog Rocker said:
That's just the problem, Jim....they did.

What do you think it cost their companies to fly from the Detroit area to Washington, D.C. just one-way using the corporate jets? The cost of the fuel alone must be staggering!

It would have been far, far cheaper for them to fly commercial. Even in first-class it would have been a huge cost savings!

That being said, I doubt we would ever see the CEO of one of the Big Three auto makers flying coach on a commercial flight...but if things keep going the way they are, they will not have a choice! :whistle:



Cheers
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TRAYLORTRASH said:
I just thought it was funny that the CEOs went to Washington begging for money to bail out their companies, and took MILLION DOLLAR PRIVATE JETS:hystria:
They have to be the most retarded people I've seen, and then when asked to take a salary cut out of good faith... THEY REFUSED
Let them fail.... Their EGOS WILL BE TO BLAME
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Obviously you guys have never flown commercial. Tell me this, what's it cost the company when there CEO is stuck in a plane on the tarmac for 8 hours? Hello, congress, can we reschedule for tomorrow, I'm stuck at the airport. Quit nit pickin'. Selling some planes and not paying the CEO a few million won't save the company. Get rid of the unions. Because of them $3000 per vehicle goes to pay for health benefits for former employees, and even their spouses. Give me a break!
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YorkHogRider
One way or another they are all going to have to downsize. If the gubment bails them out they can't continue business as usual or they will be right back to this point again. If they file chapter 11, at least there will be some form of oversight. It has to happen and I think it should not involve money from us.
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scottq60
Pikeslayer;...Get rid of the unions. Because of them $3000 per vehicle goes to pay for health benefits for former employees said:
Not sayin' I agree with everything unions do...but let me ask you...are you against workers being able to retire and have a pension and health benefits? Do you believe we should all work until we're too old or sick to work any more then just become homeless bums? Social security (to my knowledge) wasn't enacted as a retirement/pension program...though it's all that many "retired" folk have to survive on nowadays. Poor planning on their part? Maybe...

I gave 20 years of my life in defense of this great country, and because of that, I receive a modest pension and health care benefits...though they're not "free healthcare for life" as I was promised when I enlisted in the Air Force 28 years ago. I consider myself VERY fortunate to have the benefits I receive. My taxes (yes I pay taxes too) and the taxes of millions of working Americans pay for those benefits...but one day Congress could decide I don't deserve them anymore. What would I do then? Live on social security I guess...and what's left of my 401k...until social security is eliminated or runs out of money...whichever comes first.

When those automotive industry workers started their careers, they were told (like me when I joined the Air Force) about certain benefits that they would have upon retirement. My uncle David retired after several years at Fisher Body (Norwood, Ohio).A few of my relatives retired from the "big 3". Since he retired (back in the 80's), he has watched his retirement benefits shrink steadily.

It's easy for people in different circumstances (don't know yours and I'm not singling you out) to piss/moan about pensions and health-care adding $thousands to the price of a new car. Would you rather we (all Americans) have a "one-size-fits-all" standard of living where everyone is equally poor and lacking health-care and other things they've worked hard for many years to achieve?

Seems when everything's booming and everyone's (for the most part) enjoying a modest level of prosperity...that none of these things are that big of a deal...but now that we're in a financial/economic crisis...these things start to be examined with a lot more scrutiny.

Just sayin':whistle: :sofa:
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