GM now worth less than Harley
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JRS said:
Hmmmm yup GM is going though some major changes ....as the old saying goes. If you wanna make money in stocks, you have to buy when it feels really yucky ...... personally i think GM stands a good chance of having a very bright future ..... dump some name plates .. clean out some dead wood in mgmt .... and beat down the UAW to the point where they think twice before biting the hand that feed them ......the quality and productivity are pretty good at GM ,,,,, i think one of the worst things they have going for them is the wrong perception that their autos are not as good as the foreign competition.... while that may have been true in the dark ages , mid to latter 70. I have been very happy with my GM product i own now ....and my blazer is old ,, its a 98......rat
Agreed, I've always liked GM products. I have an old Vette I never plan to sell.
Unfortunately, according to reputable sources, they have a nearly $2000 per car disadvantage in their cost structure versus the Asians, for retiree pension and healthcare liabilities.
I'm not sure how that can be addressed such that they can become competitive. I hope they find a way.
John
Unfortunately, according to reputable sources, they have a nearly $2000 per car disadvantage in their cost structure versus the Asians, for retiree pension and healthcare liabilities.
I'm not sure how that can be addressed such that they can become competitive. I hope they find a way.
John
JRS said:
If you are referring to H-D's price per share greater than GM's price per share, then your conclusion may not be true. The market value of a publicly-traded company is the price per share multiplied by the number of outstanding shares of stock. The number of shares of GM outstanding far surpasses the number of outstanding shares of H-D.
JRS said:
They will ,,, they will shut down plants ,,,and increase the co pays on retired workers ....and posture chapter 11 to force the UAW to back down on demands ....They just cut matching funds to mgmt 401k programs......AT the end of the day ,, GM is holding all the big cards in the deck ,,, its just a matter of time before labor gets that reality though their union heads ... rat
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You know, the best way to make money in the stock market is to buy low and sell high. GM is getting so low that it just screams "BARGAIN!" but everybody is shying away from it. Now is the time to be brave. Personally, I don't think GM is going to go under, they will get their act together, or at least fix some of the problems. This could be another Chrysler waiting to happen. I missed the Chrysler run-up, but this time I am taking a chance and I bought some GM. Now the rest of you keep wishing them the best, because I got money riding on the outcome...!
By the way, if they don't cut their dividend, I am earning about 10% on my money while I wait for the turn around.
On the other hand, I could lose a bunch. Keep wishing them well!!
By the way, if they don't cut their dividend, I am earning about 10% on my money while I wait for the turn around.
On the other hand, I could lose a bunch. Keep wishing them well!!
I wish GM well and the best for their employees but there are some major hurdles they need to address before they become competitive in the marketplace. On the top of the list is quality control. Back in the day of shade tree mechanics, it was not that much of a problem to get your car repaired. Now with the $75 an hour shop fees, it is getting pretty ridiculous.
The last GM vehicle I purchased was a '95 Chevy Suburban. I can say that I have had pretty good luck with the engine and transmission but almost everything else on the vehicle sucks. Alternator, Paint Job, Power Steering Pump, AC, Seats, Radio/CD Player, Power Windows, Door Handles, Control Knobs, Brakes, ABS, Suspension, ... you name it ... I have had serious problem after problem.
Contrast that with my 14-year-old Lexus LS 400: So far, I have had to replace the turn signal lamps, the tail lamps, and the dome light twice. The interesting thing about Lexus is that almost without exception every vehicle they make has the same level of quality. In 14 years I have never had to take it in to be repaired other than to do a brake job. Seriously!
Dependability? I would not think twice about hopping into the Lexus and driving across country and back and I know I would not have any problems. With my Suburban, a 300-mile trip can be an "adventure" to say the least! The Suburban was not an inexpensive vehicle either, albeit cheap. It sold for over $36,000 in 1995!
In some ways a dramatic restructuring of GM might force it to be competitive in the long run. They have been running on hype and BS for all too long. I recall the ad campaign for the Olds Aurora in which they claimed it to be equal to the highest quality automobiles in the world. Yea, that proved to be a flat out lie just like other claims of quality and dependability of their products.
I absolutely love Corvettes and often have a hard time accepting the fact that they are a product of GM. If the quality control and worker pride of the Corvette plant transferred to the other GM facilities, they would be on the right track.
The last GM vehicle I purchased was a '95 Chevy Suburban. I can say that I have had pretty good luck with the engine and transmission but almost everything else on the vehicle sucks. Alternator, Paint Job, Power Steering Pump, AC, Seats, Radio/CD Player, Power Windows, Door Handles, Control Knobs, Brakes, ABS, Suspension, ... you name it ... I have had serious problem after problem.
Contrast that with my 14-year-old Lexus LS 400: So far, I have had to replace the turn signal lamps, the tail lamps, and the dome light twice. The interesting thing about Lexus is that almost without exception every vehicle they make has the same level of quality. In 14 years I have never had to take it in to be repaired other than to do a brake job. Seriously!
Dependability? I would not think twice about hopping into the Lexus and driving across country and back and I know I would not have any problems. With my Suburban, a 300-mile trip can be an "adventure" to say the least! The Suburban was not an inexpensive vehicle either, albeit cheap. It sold for over $36,000 in 1995!
In some ways a dramatic restructuring of GM might force it to be competitive in the long run. They have been running on hype and BS for all too long. I recall the ad campaign for the Olds Aurora in which they claimed it to be equal to the highest quality automobiles in the world. Yea, that proved to be a flat out lie just like other claims of quality and dependability of their products.
I absolutely love Corvettes and often have a hard time accepting the fact that they are a product of GM. If the quality control and worker pride of the Corvette plant transferred to the other GM facilities, they would be on the right track.
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^
What Gus said.
What Gus said.
Incredible! It is hard to comprehend how one of the largest, if not the largest, auto mfg'r have a value less than a mfg of motorcycles! I don't involve myself in watching the stock market but this condition makes me wonder if the H-D bubble will soon burst. Already it seems as though demand and supply have dramatically changed in favor of the customer.JRS said:
In my opinion the news is worse for the other big player. Ford is trading at around $8.12 per as I type this. And today they finalized the sale of Hertz to a private equity group for 5.6B to generate cash.
The "Exploder" tire fiasco almost killed Ford Motors. ...they have never been as healthy as before it occured....stock was in the mid $20"s at the time. They are now "worth" about 1/3 as much as they were before it went down.
Both companies ..being "old" compared to Honda, Nissan, Toyota..are straddled with these health care costs the young companies simply do not have. The big profit maker for both Ford and GM ..is truck sales (including SUV's here) and with the fuel price shock we had this year...they took a beating. They need to be leaner..and this will enable them to react quicker to prospective market changes... But they need better foresight to see these changes also...thats a management problem alone.
The "Exploder" tire fiasco almost killed Ford Motors. ...they have never been as healthy as before it occured....stock was in the mid $20"s at the time. They are now "worth" about 1/3 as much as they were before it went down.
Both companies ..being "old" compared to Honda, Nissan, Toyota..are straddled with these health care costs the young companies simply do not have. The big profit maker for both Ford and GM ..is truck sales (including SUV's here) and with the fuel price shock we had this year...they took a beating. They need to be leaner..and this will enable them to react quicker to prospective market changes... But they need better foresight to see these changes also...thats a management problem alone.
This is not a very saleable bet considering exploding life expectancy. You figure GM retirees have already made it through the risky younger years (which drag down expectancy numbes in the first place) and GM is in serious trouble.TomB said:
GM's stock is suffering hugely at the moment with Kerkorian selling huge chunks of his stake, thereby admitting he was wrong about the company's prospects, frankly. He has to have run the actuarial tables and found he could not trade out of the staggering financial obligations owed to GM's retirees. There are credible estimates he has lost $500-$600 MM on his stock bet.
Buying now is incredibly risky. Most feel the company will have to file bankruptcy for reassignment of these obligations, thus leaving the common equity holders with nothing. Caveat Emptor, I guess.
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I recently became a GM shareholder.
I love their products, as I have been a Corvette owner since 2000.
I added to my position yesterday afternoon, this morning, and will probably add to it again at the end of the day.
Many of you are correct. The market cap of this company is now less than that, of Harley Davidson.
GM has gotten so cheap, that its net assets, or the book value of the entire business, is now trading for less than 50 cents on the dollar.
That's right folks, you can now buy a dollars worth of GM's assets, for 50-45 cents.
This is on top of a 10+% dividend yield.
You gotta love the stock market....everyone loves a sale, except when there's one on Wall Street.
good luck everyone,
David
I love their products, as I have been a Corvette owner since 2000.
I added to my position yesterday afternoon, this morning, and will probably add to it again at the end of the day.
Many of you are correct. The market cap of this company is now less than that, of Harley Davidson.
GM has gotten so cheap, that its net assets, or the book value of the entire business, is now trading for less than 50 cents on the dollar.
That's right folks, you can now buy a dollars worth of GM's assets, for 50-45 cents.
This is on top of a 10+% dividend yield.
You gotta love the stock market....everyone loves a sale, except when there's one on Wall Street.
good luck everyone,
David
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