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I installed my 37G cams and %&S gear drive last night ( with advice from Doc):bowdwn:. Unfortunatly Doc had to get his beauty sleep before I finiished so here's the question. I checked the inner gear movement. It moved .001. Outer gear slightly less than .001. All within specs. Now with eveything in place if I turn the rear cam gear back and forth I can't really feel the gear move but it makes a small clicking noise . Is this normal because you have to check them before you lube them up?
 

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pa-glazier said:
I installed my 37G cams and %&S gear drive last night ( with advice from Doc):bowdwn:. Unfortunatly Doc had to get his beauty sleep before I finiished so here's the question. I checked the inner gear movement. It moved .001. Outer gear slightly less than .001. All within specs. Now with eveything in place if I turn the rear cam gear back and forth I can't really feel the gear move but it makes a small clicking noise . Is this normal because you have to check them before you lube them up?
What do mean with everything in place? The gears installed in the camplate?
 

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Ok...I'm awake now....if you have noise in the cam gears as you test the back lash I suggust you get a larger cam gear (''Z'') before you start the bike. If you have .001 on the pinion gear I'd get a larger gear (''Z'') also to get ''0'' lash.
 

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IMO, you will likely get noise from the gears. Whether its clicking, whine (or both) depends on the backlash in each of the gear meshes.
 

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I have the gear drive with tw37gs, not sure what type of clicking sound you are hearing, but there will be some gear whine initially so you can barely hear it after 1000 miles, I only have around 500 miles so far. Its not annoying (to me), you hear a little at start until the engine runs 10-15 seconds (when cold) other than that its noticable when you roll off the throttle around 3K rpms. I also notice virtually no more valve train noise, and best of all the 37gs pull much much stronger than the 203s...:chopper:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Checked the lash again yesterday.I understood the process better after talking with the teacher (he is probably ready to put me in the corner with a dunce cap! :wacko: ). I got someone to help hold the dowel rod in the intake lifter hole and I had almost zero lash on the inner gears. It's hard to hold the cam from moving. The outer gears had slightly less than .oo1 lash in two spots when checking it in 4 places 90° apart. This is happening because of the small pinion shaft runout that I have. After talking with Doc I will go with the gear drive like it is. I will have a little extra noise because of this. The clicking happens when you turn the gears to one of the spots that have the small lash and turn the large gear back and forth and you get a very faint tap. It's funny because you can't really feel the gear turn but obviously it is because of the tap.
 

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What I found is that I had over .003 of pinion shaft runout. Max tolerance by HD spec. But when I assembled the camplate assy and gears and checked lash at the cam gear I had [email protected] 12:00, [email protected] 3:00, [email protected] 6:00 and [email protected] 9:00. You can barely hear a whine. You have to really concentrate on hearing it.

You'll be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What actually causes the pinion shaft runout? Is the shaft out of round, loose fitting bearing, crooked crank?
 

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The shaft is part of the flwheel, there are two flywheels that are pressed on to a crank pin and trued to each other within a max .001 tolerance. Now you take that out of trueness and measure it way out on the end of the pinion shaft where it is more noticable. Runout is the product of untrue wheels, it is a ecentric movement. The futher the flywheels are out of true the more runout will appear. If you have .003 or more runout the flywheels need attention. I never seen a ''0'' run out, the closest has been .0002.
Hope this helps in spite of my spelling.
 

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hdmd88 said:
The shaft is part of the flwheel, there are two flywheels that are pressed on to a crank pin and trued to each other within a max .001 tolerance. Now you take that out of trueness and measure it way out on the end of the pinion shaft where it is more noticable. Runout is the product of untrue wheels, it is a ecentric movement. The futher the flywheels are out of true the more runout will appear. If you have .003 or more runout the flywheels need attention. I never seen a ''0'' run out, the closest has been .0002.
Hope this helps in spite of my spelling.
That explains it! What would the fix be?
 

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pa-glazier said:
That explains it! What would the fix be?
In the old days (EVO Shovel Pans ect) we would retrue the flywheels.....today the LARGE straight crankpin is pressed into the flywheels at such a awesome pressure we are left with nothing to do but buy another set of from the factory. I thing the list price for wheels and rods are $400.00.
 

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hdmd88 said:
In the old days (EVO Shovel Pans ect) we would retrue the flywheels.....today the LARGE straight crankpin is pressed into the flywheels at such a awesome pressure we are left with nothing to do but buy another set of from the factory. I thing the list price for wheels and rods are $400.00.
Yep, HD has gotten more and more modern and, shall we say, Asian, in their approach to the inner workings of the TC. As Doc says, too much runout and you will probably have to toss the unit and get another one since they are pressed together. I've trued numerous sets of early model five piece wheels and never gotten one much better than .001. I've still got my OEM HD flywheel truing jig that I keep around for old time's sake. It probably won't get much use anymre. :)


.
 

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Sidenote.

hdmd88 said:
Man I even forgot where I put mine....:hystria:

An ineresting note on purchasing new flywheels, Doc. A few years back, the lower end went out on my 1982 Shovelhead. I checked around and the dealer wanted $400 to disassemble, replace the crankpin and hone the rods for ovesize bearings, install new small end buhings, etc., reassemble and true. While I have the capability to true things myself, just the parts alone from one of the A/M companies would have been more than $300.

I checked further and discovered that for $495.00 I could get a whole new set of wheels (three piece, dash '93 Evo. wheels and modern curved connecting rods). They are what HD calls "commonized", that is, an Evolution-style replacement for Shovelheads, balanced for Shovelhead use, etc. So that's what I did. I even sold the old wheels to another happy Shovelhead owner, too.

This seemed like a pretty good deal. The only negatve thing was that these wheels are lighter than the original so I lost some of that really low idle capability and probably some of the low-speed torque that the old Shovel originally came with. The dash '93 wheels are lighter than the original by close to ten pounds since the left wheel and the right wheel are about the same size unlike the dash '78 originals which had the really big left wheel.

On the good side, the balance is just incredibly good. The machine has now became much, much smoother than it ever had been prior to the change over. It's also got more oomph on the road and has an extended "sweet spot" from 65 to 85 mph which is really a lot of fun. Believe it or not, I can actually see out of the mirrors!

So I can give a vote for just replacing the whole assembly when something bad happens. It worked for me.

NUC
 

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newultraclassic said:
An ineresting note on purchasing new flywheels, Doc. A few years back, the lower end went out on my 1982 Shovelhead. I checked around and the dealer wanted $400 to disassemble, replace the crankpin and hone the rods for ovesize bearings, install new small end buhings, etc., reassemble and true.

I checked further and discovered that for $495.00 I could get a whole new set of wheels (three piece. dash '93 Evo. wheels and modern curved connecting rods). They are what HD calls "commonized", that is, an Evolution-style replacement for Shovelheads, balanced for Shovelhead use, etc. So that's what I did. Sold the old wheels to another happy Shovelhead owner, too.

The seemed like a pretty good deal. The only negatve thing was that these wheels are lighter than the original so I lost some of that really low idle capability and probably some of the low-speed torque that the old Shovel originally came with. The dash '93 wheels are lighter than the original by close to ten pounds since the left wheel and the right wheel are about the same size unlike the dash '78 originals which had the really big left wheel.

On the good side, the balance is just incredibly good. The machine has now became much much smoother than it ever had been prior to the change over. It's also got more oomph on the road and has an extended "sweet spot" from 65 to 85 mph which is really a lot of fun. Believe it or not, I can actually see out of the mirrors!

So I can give a vote for just replacing the whole assembly when something bad happens. It worked for me.

NUC
Good story and true too....the smoothness comes from the off set rods, they are over center on the crank pin when the cylinder fires. It also has a better and straighter pull on the piston if you got the -83 pistons to go with the flywheels...the pistons had a .030 wrist pin off set that faced forward to match the rod off set. Harley only made the Shovel off set piston one year and I don't believe they are even available any more.
 

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hdmd88 said:
Good story and true too....the smoothness comes from the off set rods, they are over center on the crank pin when the cylinder fires. It also has a better and straighter pull on the piston if you got the -83 pistons to go with the flywheels...the pistons had a .030 wrist pin off set that faced forward to match the rod off set. Harley only made the Shovel off set piston one year and I don't believe they are even available any more.
Yes, I got the new offset pistons at the same time. I had the dealer do a bore job. At that time, they were more reasonable than they are now.

I don't ride it all that much anymore, but it's a good ride. When I get too old to ride my old Shovelhead, I'll drain it and take out the battery and put it in my family room. :)
 

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newultraclassic said:
Yes, I got the new offset pistons at the same time. I had the dealer do a bore job. At that time, they were more reasonable than they are now.

I don't ride it all that much anymore, but it's a good ride. When I get too old to ride my old Shovelhead, I'll drain it and take out the battery and put it in my family room. :)
Might as well Pops, you got enough spare parts in there to build one anyway!

:blurpan:

Fangar
 
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