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Discussion Starter #1
So, let me start this with a thank you to the forum in general.

The bike is an 88 FXRS. 35,000 miles on the clock.
I have my outer and inner primary off for a re-gearing that I just completed. I’m at the point where it’s ready to go back together - kind of. I replaced my shift lever coming off of the transmission and while I was face to face with the trans pulley I noticed some moisture around the pully nut. “Ohh boy” I said to to myself....(the water droplet on the bottom right of the pulley is because it’s raining out at the moment) I have the extended socket & centering donut needed in the garage to remove the nut but haven’t had to use it yet. Is today my lucky day?
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Now, I’ve got the factory service manual on hand and I just can’t wrap my head around what I gotta do to right this. After reading a bunch of past posts online across the forum and web it is to my very loose understanding (if that’s what you want to call it ) that there is a seal, behind a race, in front of a bearing? Please correct me if I’m wrong..
As bad as I want to ride, I’d prefer to order whatever is needed and nip this in the rear and upgrade if possible while I’m in here learning as I go.

Also it seems I have the OEM single lip seal within the inner primary. As well as the OEM bearing. At the moment I have the James gasket kit that has an updated double lip seal. Do I need to remove the snap rings and bearing in order to replace that seal? Or do I pull it from the back side of the inner primary and just press the new seal in? I see some distortion on the bottom side of the bearing/snap ring in picture #3 that concerns me but I am not sure if it should?
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Oem seal. with some dings that are concerning to me as well. Don’t want this to cause a leak but if the seal is doing it’s job than it shouldn’t.... right?
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Last but not least, the James gasket kit came with 2 seals that look identical but one is marked with a 2 and one with an 8. Im assuming one of them goes where the starter shaft comes into the primary and one goes in the transmission where the starter shaft passes through it. But does it make a difference where each one goes?
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Last one and I’m done boys lol...
where does this fancy seal go? Or is it not needed for my application ?
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I know it was quite a few questions and a ton of picture room but before I go any further I just want to say thank you to everyone. I’m half lost at this point having never had to replace any of the seals or bearings mentioned or asked about (clearly).
cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Think I’ve got things sorted so far.
the # 8 is in the primary where the starter shaft comes in. 2 goes in the trans case where the starter shaft rides there.
green = shifter shaft seal which ill swap if it is
i got the inner primary bearing seal out as well as the two snap rings.
Now, do I get the race off the trans shaft and then go the baker route ? Or replace the snap rings / seal and leave it stock? It’s $50 and if it keeps me from having to tear down the primary any time soon to fix a race walking ‘ seal issue, then I’m “happy” to spend it.
I can make a threaded rod press to get the bearing itself out with 2 sockets, all thread and some washers so I’m not too worried about that....or should I be? I have an indi I can bring the inner to and have him press out/in the bearing if need be..but what fun is that?

Trans pully with moisture around the nut is still concerning but the more I read the more it seems necessary to just take care and replace every seal I can. The two I suspect -
(breakdown from a 91)

#28. Part # 11161 : quad seal
#32. Part # 12050 : mainshaft oil seal
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Georges garage Main drive gear seal installer
#620080 = $55.95 for the quad seal?

what to use for the removal / install for the mainshaft seal?
also is 5th gear seal part# 12035B to be replaced as well?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Okay learning as I go, that green seal isn’t what I thought it was lol. Any waysss.
Got the shifter shaft baby snap ring off, it was wet behind the washer/spacer.
Got the trans sprocket off. Full of centrifugal fluid / grime marks on the inside. It had no lock ring that the manual shows which I found odd. Never the less it’s off.
Got the race pulled off with some home made puller arms and a puller it came off without a fight thankfully. No grinding necessary.
Picked out the wedding ring seal behind the race just to make sure it wasn’t going to be a fight. I lightly pushed it back in to stop shock proof from puddling up until the new one gets here.

Which brings me to what’s on the way.
Baker high torque bearing / seal kit # 18956 - to do away with any future walking race issue.
Large mainshaft seal for 5 speed w/ quad seal # 12050
Mainshaft oil seal # JGI 12013-A (wedding ring looking seal)
Sprocket spacer # 17-9851 says it’s .850 (mine measured .827~ and the sprocket was awwweeefullly close to the trans to the point where grime was being rubbed on the trans housing so .025 should help and I hope it doesn’t cause stack height issues during assembly)
Shifter shaft seal # 12045-dL
Transmission shifter lever snap ring # 12-0950

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Think it’s safe to say it was only a matter of time before it really let go and started leaking.

Although I’m sure all of this has been discussed before and no one is replying, I’m listing parts and taking pictures to maybe help someone in my position down the road. If all goes well the parts will be here tomorrow and I’ll get this part of things taken care of.
I still need to press the inner primary bearing out which if I’m feeling lucky will be taken care of tonight.
 

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It is curious why someone would leave that lockplate and screw off.

You didn't by any chance measure the gap between the inner race and the main drive gear before removal, did you? The specs are in the manual, but for mine, it calls for a gap between .100 and .150 in. Just to know if it did walk in.

While you have it exposed, you might as well check the bushing where the shifter shaft passes through the transmission case. I believe you said you replaced the lever that mounts on that shaft and the seal is coming with your order. A lot of sloppy shifting is because of that bushing being worn out. It probably doesn't show in the manual or even the parts book, but you can get a replacement from the dealer with the right part number. I think there are 2 different ones, short and long. I know I have the numbers buried somewhere. Jims makes a cool guy tool to remove and install the bushing, It does call for a little more disassembly to replace it, but nothing too difficult.

Where did you get all those part numbers for the stuff that you ordered? They're not MoCo part numbers. Did you get everything from Baker with the bearing/seal kit?

Don't feel too bad with all those leaks. Just typical Harley Davidson. They come up and you fix them, or live with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It is curious why someone would leave that lockplate and screw off.

You didn't by any chance measure the gap between the inner race and the main drive gear before removal, did you? The specs are in the manual, but for mine, it calls for a gap between .100 and .150 in. Just to know if it did walk in.

While you have it exposed, you might as well check the bushing where the shifter shaft passes through the transmission case. I believe you said you replaced the lever that mounts on that shaft and the seal is coming with your order. A lot of sloppy shifting is because of that bushing being worn out. It probably doesn't show in the manual or even the parts book, but you can get a replacement from the dealer with the right part number. I think there are 2 different ones, short and long. I know I have the numbers buried somewhere. Jims makes a cool guy tool to remove and install the bushing, It does call for a little more disassembly to replace it, but nothing too difficult.

Where did you get all those part numbers for the stuff that you ordered? They're not MoCo part numbers. Did you get everything from Baker with the bearing/seal kit?

Don't feel too bad with all those leaks. Just typical Harley Davidson. They come up and you fix them, or live with them.
I didn’t measure it but there was sufficient space to get a puller between the race and gear if that helps.. with that said I had to trim my homemade puller to about 1/8 inch at the “prong” that dies the pulling in order to get it between the race and gear.
I didn’t get the bushing as I have almost no movement up/down/side/side of the splined shifter shaft coming out of the trans but it probably wouldn’t hurt any to do since it is apart. There is however a slight in and out movement but very little. I can’t get it to move without the lever but did notice it when removing the old one.

I got the part numbers from Dennis Kirk via James and baker. Dennis has their own numbers for the product and then also list the manufacture part number. I listed the manufacturer numbers ( at least how they were presented on their site).

I forget where I believe it was another forum but I read that the oem single lip goes in as pictured in my first post but the after market double lip goes in opposite? Meaning the flat side goes facing away from the transmission and into the primary. I don’t recall the year bIke but a fella pressed his in with the flat side of the double lip seal facing like the oem and had to tear it apart again because it was leaking... before I press mine in is there a correct and wrong way to do this? being double lip< does it matter which side of the seal is facing toward the transmission when pressed into the inner primary ? The new James double lip doesn’t have any markings such as “oil side” or anything besides part numbers so I just wanted to make sure to do it right the first time.
 

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Yea there’s a seal passed that race on the main shaft. Replace both the seal and race. S&S makes a tapered race that keeps it from walking into the seal
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So all has gone well this far. Got the main shaft trans seal in as well as the quad seal backed by the spacer. Easy as pie. I drilled two pilot holes in the trans seal and sent self tappers in while using the shop vac to hopefully avoid any shavings going any where. Few good yanks and that was out.

Might have drove the wedding ring seal just a tad deeper than it was before I pried the old one out, Still looked good, just a smidge deep is all. No leaks just sitting there so that's a plus.

Shifter shaft seal was a tight little bi$h but she's in and the snap ring seated so that's that. Hopefully.

Only thing left as far as this seal business is pressing the inner primary bearing. I thought my ball joint press would do it, I thought wrong. Then I attempted my largest c clamp, and it only covered half the bearing. So no dice there either. I'll have to see about borrowing the right tools from my brother in law but if that doesn't work out, to the Indi it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yea there’s a seal passed that race on the main shaft. Replace both the seal and race. S&S makes a tapered race that keeps it from walking into the seal
Roger that, the seal is now nice and fresh. I went with the baker 1 piece set up to eliminate the race walking issue.
 

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Throw the inner primary bearing in the freezer over night and it will almost drop in tomorrow. Couple love taps with a socket the same size and it’s good. I’ve never used a press for an inner primary bearing but I’ve never been on a time crunch with one either haha
 

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Discussion Starter #12
B.I.L is going to press out the old inner primary bearing, and in the new baker bearing tomorrow. After that everything on the primary side of the trans will be new, except the sprocket it’s self. No garuntee I didn‘t muff things up but I can’t imagine it isn’t better than it was 30 yrs ago. At the very minimum, I’ve done enough research to make the average guys head spin. At least that’s how it feels to me anyways lol. Far as I’m concerned I know nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Out with the old, in with the new. The baker bearing is in. Now, which way does the seal face? Flat side to the trans, or flat side to the primary?
Reading through the questions and comments on bakers website I see one person advise it to one way and another, the opposite. It’s the last step before input the bike back together..
 

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I'm sure you are done by now, but I would mount it in the stock configuration, flat side towards the trans. Just like in the 4th pic. You're still trying to keep the primary fluid in the primary.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm sure you are done by now, but I would mount it in the stock configuration, flat side towards the trans. Just like in the 4th pic. You're still trying to keep the primary fluid in the primary.
i did in fact put it on flat side towards the trans. Baker had answered someone else’s question of installation instructions on their website and stated that was the correct way.

After attempting to make my own sprocket lock ring I took one look at my finished piece and said.... yeah no. And ordered one. Jp has this particular one listed to fit my bike so we’ll see when it gets here Tuesday.
BDL Transmission pulley lock plate kit : # TPR-100
Im still kind if baffled as to why this bike didn’t have one. But it will now. I just hope I can get the holes to line up because that loctite is good and set now lol. Took one guy standing on the brake and a cheater bar on the torque wrench. Which broke my old trusty wrench as it won’t engage lefty any more. It worked fine right up until I removed the sprocket socket from it and realized it won't engage lefty. Since it won’t engage lefty, I don’t know I can trust it tightening any more.. kinda pissed about that as we’ve had it for a very long time. Have a 1/4 inch lb torque wrench I can bench test it against but that’s not going to help me for the clutch hub nut. As it is also left hand thread.
BTW: factory service manual calls for 110-120 ft lbs for transmission sprocket nut on my 88 fxrs.
 

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You know they make Breaker bars just for something like this. I even have a 3/4" breaker and 3/4" sockets for heavy stuff like this. A heavy duty piece of steel.

You might be able to repair the TQ wrench, maybe not. Back when Sears was Sears, I once got a repair kit for the head on my 3/8" drive wrench. I don't think that will ever happen again. If yours came off one of those tool trucks that deliver, they might have repair kits.

You might want to use the procedure in my manual for the trans sprocket nut. After doing the red loctite thing, you tighten the nut to 50 ft. lbs. initial torque. Then you scribe a line on the nut and sprocket. Then give the nut another 30-40° of tightening. If you need any more to line up one of the holes, you can go as far as 45°, but no more. You can move the lockplate around or even flip it over to line up the holes for the screws. I don't remember if I have 1 or 2, but my shop manual says 2, and they only needs 84-108 in.lbs.

Also, those screws, when new, come with loctite already applied. You can reapply and reuse them, but I would probably just use some blue. Maybe even some purple. You don't want something stronger than the screws.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, I’m a butthead. Upon a thorough reading of the trans sprocket section of the fsm, the reason my 88 rs didnt have a plate is because it only requires a set screw. Talk about a DUH moment. So now I have a retaining plate w/ screws being delivered tomorrow and all I needed was a screw. Manual calls for just 1 of the three holes to be used which works because 2/3 are in the corner of the nut and one sits dead smack in the middle of the flat. So now the only thing holding me up is a single set screw lol.. I guess the set screw that was supposed to be in the hole of the trans sprocket was ejected once upon a time in past 32 years.
Live and ya learn I suppose.
 

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You ought to hang that plate up in a prominent place in your tool box or somewhere you do you wrenching as a reminder to "look before you leap". Every time you see it will make you think.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You ought to hang that plate up in a prominent place in your tool box or somewhere you do you wrenching as a reminder to "look before you leap". Every time you see it will make you think.
You’re absolutely right.
This whole time I’m in a “rush” with nothing but time on my hands at the moment. I guess it’s just excitement for the ride but there’s really no reason for it. Something simple like this makes me second guess how thorough I’m being. I’m all worried about torque specs, part numbers and upgrades constantly racking my brain of how to improve things. The plate and screws were 15 bucks but I paid to have overnighted every part I have had to order thus far in hopes to get it done sooner.
Although I’m for sure learning about various aspects of not only my bike but others as well, this project in and of itself has become a big “in my face” reminder to slow down and enjoy the process. (still trying to get a grip on slowing down lol). Riding is only half of the fun.
Can’t wait to hear my old mans reaction after his first putt on the scooter as it sits. Between the motor, brakes, suspension, and now gearing. It’s certainly a better running / riding bike now than it was.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
So got the inner primary together (FINALY) got the clutch diaphragm spring to .003 the set screw 3/4 turn backed out from seated. Went to adjust the clutch cable and got it to spec of 1/8 free play. Gave er a light pull and it’s a brick. I’m preeeetty positive one or more of the balls in the ramp came out as I must have pushed the clutch lever in while everything was apart and I was taking down time to install the front pm brakes / swap handle bar controls.
Do I have to drain the trans in order to pop the side cover off and reset the ball/ ramp??

edit: she’s getting drained anyway. Fresh fluids all around.
 
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