V-Twin Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After seeing countless bikes loose power with the V+H BR, I saw for myself a stock bike make 77/79 with only an intake, Hooker Headers and a PC and dyno tune. The Hookers not only look better than the V+H ,having no heatshield join, but are also ceramic coated.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
701 Posts
I originally bought a set of Hooker Troublemakers, unpacked them, looked them over and returned them for V&H Big Radius.
Not impressed at all.
The Hookers use the chrome heat shield itself as the last third of the actual pipe. Can you say BLUE when summer temps combine with stop & go traffic.
Ceramic coated? So what.. Eventually, they'll yellow out and then blue.
There is less of an arc, and not very attractive. And they are a tad shorter too.
If you scratch them, or burn a shoe on them, you're screwed. With the BR, just order that section of heat shield and you're brand new.
IMO, the V&H are the better pipe..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well the Dyno doesn't lie, ask most anyone with the BR, they loose power period. If the tune is correct, you shouldn't see blueing on the ends of a pipe. The Hookers have heat shields where they are needed, at the header end.My buddy has ridden in the Florida heat and stop and go of Daytona without any discoloring issues.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
701 Posts
slalomdude said:
Well the Dyno doesn't lie .
I guess my next question is "show me the dyno charts of the two pipes dynoed on the same bike" on the same day.
Not to be arguementitive, but you better have some real comparitive data before tossing the "dyno" word in.
Both pipes will suck in the HP department. Their short, they are true duals and they aren't connected in any way.
It's strictly a "vanity" design. Some, like me, are willing to sacrifice some power for the cutsie look.

If you think the Hooker is better, and you make a statement like that, then prove it with some real facts.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I saw the dyno tune with my own eyes, I have seen the chart with my own eyes:dunno: . I watched the base line run, bone stock 61/72. After pipes,intake and tune 76.7/78.9. . I will even Fax you a copy if you want!!. Just do a Search on here, most tuners hate the BR, cos they kill performance. I would never have guessed that short 2-2 pipes like the troublemakers, would have made that kind of power. Stepped headers really work, look at the Bassani prostreets, they make some of the best 2-2 numbers.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
701 Posts
You still don't get it.

So, you dynoed a bone stock bike, and then added a set of Hookers along with another set of variables in the form of a tuner and an intake, and found improvement.. Well no s#it...

If you are going to claim the BR pipes are inferior to the Hookers, you better have both sets on hand and dyno them.
You are assuming, and we all know what that means..
Maybe try a real comparitive test before you toss out a baseless claim next time..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well, you just dont want to accept it do you. Lets see your numbers,or didnt you even bother to dyno.Why are they a bunch of variables, what a power commander?, most everyone installs one. Yep I admit, the quality of the tune is paramount to the performance of the bike. Lets open this up to other members, anyone dyno after their BR install.?
Just ask the informed guys on here,HDWRENCH,GROCK,DOC etc, they will all tell you Not to use BR on mild builds.
Anyway don't know why I am bothering with this arguement, not like I even have Troublemakers, not yet anyway!!
 

·
Registered
2012 FLTRX, 2014 FLHTK
Joined
·
160 Posts
I have a 97 FXDWG with a Ness big sucker intake, and Hooker Header Long Staggered pipes w/o baffles. I have had this setup for about 4 years now and the pipes do not have any blueing or yellowing. I had the bike dyno'd when I first put the pipes on and got 79 ft/pds and 80 hp. I have the dyno charts somewhere around here. The problem I had with the hookers is that they fall apart with the vibration of the bike. First the hose clamps that hold the heat shield onto the bike started breaking one by one, then the tab on the inside of the heat shield that holds the hose clamps broke, and finally the front pipe broke off while I was riding about 1"-2" out from the cylinder head. Now I am planning on buying the V&H big radius pipes. V&H has a very good reputation and I have never heard anyone that has them complain. I will get my bike dyno'd again after I put them on just to see the difference.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,163 Posts
If I wanted the most hp/tq, I would go with a two into one setup. Ever since I saw the BR, heard the sound, I have never looked back. I like puttin' around, but the 95" runs pretty good with the BR, fast enough for me. Of course my Suzuki was just a little faster, but was no fun to ride after about 2 hours...something for everyone.

Thorns
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
701 Posts
slalomdude said:
Well, you just dont want to accept it do you. Lets see your numbers,or didnt you even bother to dyno.Why are they a bunch of variables, what a power commander?, most everyone installs one. Yep I admit, the quality of the tune is paramount to the performance of the bike. Lets open this up to other members, anyone dyno after their BR install.?
Just ask the informed guys on here,HDWRENCH,GROCK,DOC etc, they will all tell you Not to use BR on mild builds.
Anyway don't know why I am bothering with this arguement, not like I even have Troublemakers, not yet anyway!!


What you are not understanding here is almost not worth my time here.

Try to understand where I'm coming from here.
When you compare something, it's head to head.
No other variables involved between the two direct dyno comparisons.
Then, you will know the true difference, and not just an assumption..
You are not doing that.
You are tossing a bunch of parts on a bike, making more HP and then claiming another pipe isn't as good without testing it on the same bike.

I don't care what any other tuners opinion is, This is about your assumptions that the Hooker is better.
I KNOW the Big Radius sucks. It sucks bad.....
What you are failing to understand is that the Hookers may suck just as bad because they are essentially the same pipe, and the Hooker is even shorter...
If your buddy wants to make more power, tell him to try a V&H Pro Pipe...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Propipes, been there done that, thunderheaders been there done that. We all agree that 2-1 will make higher numbers(although probably not too many into the 80/80's). The discussion started over the merits of the Troublemakers. Do you think stepped header design is bullshit?. yes in a ideal world we would rent a dyno for the day and throw on a bunch of pipes and do a true head to head. Unfortunately that isn't possible for most of us, so we must make some assumptions.
The hookers seem to be good quality and dont appear to have too much on them to break, unless for some reason one of the weld breaks. We will have to wait and see.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
701 Posts
Unfortunately that isn't possible for most of us, so we must make some assumptions.
And my point is to never assume. If you haven't proven it, why say it in the first place?
If you are going to title a thread "Forget about Big Radius", it only reflects better on you as an individual if you have something concrete and true to offer up.


Do you think stepped header design is bullshit?.

BS?
Probably, but it makes a hell of an unproven selling point for some people.
It hasn't been proven on any dyno to be more effective. If it were, you would see concrete evidence advertised, not just fluffed up BS..Just about every pipe starts out of the exhaust port one size diameter, and usually ends up around 2 to 2 1/2" making it a step.
BTW, V&H uses two steps in the BR pipes.

Bottom line, they will both suck, but both look good, (BR Looking great) and they sound mean..
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,037 Posts
Technically George would be mostly right. Short non-connected duals of similar diameter and similar length should make very "similar" power at similar RPM'S. As you go to cross over pipes, 2 into 1, or much longer pipes one would expect to see some differences. At to Dyno VS the butt-O-meter, I think I'll rely on the dyne for results that have some accuracy. This assumes the same bike on the same day.

BTW: I do realize that the amount of and design of the baffles also comes into play.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,163 Posts
BR pipes on my Low Rider. I'm in at the parts counter at the local stealer, sales manager comes in looking for me, shakes my hand, and asks if I could start my bike, as a customer is buying a new bike, and wants to upgrade to the BR pipes, but wants to hear them. Every where I go, I get compliments on the BR pipes on looks and sound. I love them too. Not from a pure hp/tq, but best all around pipes that add to the whole experience of riding a H-D, and most important to me is the pipes are built first class. When I'm riding at 55 mph, 75 mph, or 35 mph, horsepower and torque don't mean a thing to me. I ride about 25% of the time with the wife, and have plenty of low end power to piss her off if I feel the demon in my right hand. Plenty of exhaust pipes out there....get the one that trips your trigger. As you found out this is a very good forum, and tech knowledge is first rate. If you make a statement, the people here are looking for the reason you made the statement. You would do yourself a favor and join the subscription, as it will pay for the knowledge you will gain here many times over. Ride Safe.

Thorns
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yep, I know this is a good forum, I have been a member for close to 3 years, well before subscription. One of these days , I will get around to subscribe.:thumbsup:
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top