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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey folks,

Questions about intake manifolds from experience only please.

I am replacing my 98 Evo intake manifold with a new gasket and solid mount RAM JETT manifold , to do away with the stock compliance leaks.

The Ram Jett intake comes with a 12 point bolt instead of the stock allens, and because of the shoulder of these bolts and the design of the manifold, the kit bolts must be used. They look like plain old steel that will rust after first wash or rain storm.

1st, anybody have any experience in this regard?

2nd, I intend on using a gasket sealer on the gaskets called Gasgacinch. anybody else use gasket sealer to insure a leak free seal.

3rd, do you use blue thread locker on these manifold bolts?

and lastly, how in the hell do they expect you to torque these down to 4 ft lbs then 10 ft lbs using a 12 point box end wrench, which is what they tell you to use, and seems to be the only wrench that will fit the tight tolerances on the manifold. Are we suppose to just feel our way from past experiences?

Thanks for any helpful info at all.
Rick
 

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rickr01 said:
Hey folks,

Questions about intake manifolds from experience only please.

I am replacing my 98 Evo intake manifold with a new gasket and solid mount RAM JETT manifold , to do away with the stock compliance leaks.

The Ram Jett intake comes with a 12 point bolt instead of the stock allens, and because of the shoulder of these bolts and the design of the manifold, the kit bolts must be used. They look like plain old steel that will rust after first wash or rain storm.

1st, anybody have any experience in this regard?
I wouldn't worry about them. You could get some stainless 12 point bolts though but it wouldn't be worth the trouble to me.

2nd, I intend on using a gasket sealer on the gaskets called Gasgacinch. anybody else use gasket sealer to insure a leak free seal.
I've installed a couple of those quite a few years ago. Nothing on the gaskets and never had a problem. But then I've also never had a problem with the stock Evo and TC manifolds in about 250,000 miles either.

3rd, do you use blue thread locker on these manifold bolts?
No, use never-seize.

and lastly, how in the hell do they expect you to torque these down to 4 ft lbs then 10 ft lbs using a 12 point box end wrench, which is what they tell you to use, and seems to be the only wrench that will fit the tight tolerances on the manifold. Are we suppose to just feel our way from past experiences?
Just use a little common sense, 10 lbs ain't that tight. You could always practice on something off the bike first.

Thanks for any helpful info at all.
Rick
Good luck.
 

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rickr01 said:
Hey folks,

Questions about intake manifolds from experience only please.

and lastly, how in the hell do they expect you to torque these down to 4 ft lbs then 10 ft lbs using a 12 point box end wrench, which is what they tell you to use, and seems to be the only wrench that will fit the tight tolerances on the manifold. Are we suppose to just feel our way from past experiences?

Thanks for any helpful info at all.
Rick
I haven't had any experience with this item, but if you can get a box wrench on it you can use a torque adapter (sometimes call a dog bone wrench) on your torque wrench to torque the bolts. Same thing used on TC rocker arm brackets and rocker box covers.

:) :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Loctite

Anti seize huh? It seems as though the bolts would work loose with vibration at 10 lbs of torque hence loctite.

Anti seize makes sense though in aluminum heads ????????
 

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rickr01 said:
Anti seize huh? It seems as though the bolts would work loose with vibration at 10 lbs of torque hence loctite.

Anti seize makes sense though in aluminum heads ????????
They won't work loose if you torque them correctly. If you are really worried about it, then drill some holes in the bolt heads and safety wire them. I do that to most of the hardware on my bike that doesn't have another type of locking mechanism. Just a habit I picked up working on aircraft..... Either way, you should periodically check for loose hardware, at least a couple times a year.

Never seize is fine. It will prevent the heat from locking the bolts in permanently, which wouldn't be good if you have to take it apart later (you will eventually). When you have two different metals in contact with each other, you have the problem of corrosion forming due to the "dissimiliar" metals reacting with each other. Never seize will help prevent that from happening.

Do not use gasket sealer of any type on your engine unless the factory service manual calls for it. Using it just covers up the real problem... damaged or misaligned sealing surfaces.

As Ed Y said, I've never had any problems with the stock manifold leaking, provided it's installed correctly. It sounds to me like this kit is nothing more than a ploy to seperate a customer from his/her cash when all that's really needed is a careful inspection and installation of the manifold.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ToddM said:
They won't work loose if you torque them correctly. If you are really worried about it, then drill some holes in the bolt heads and safety wire them. I do that to most of the hardware on my bike that doesn't have another type of locking mechanism. Just a habit I picked up working on aircraft..... Either way, you should periodically check for loose hardware, at least a couple times a year.

Never seize is fine. It will prevent the heat from locking the bolts in permanently, which wouldn't be good if you have to take it apart later (you will eventually). When you have two different metals in contact with each other, you have the problem of corrosion forming due to the "dissimiliar" metals reacting with each other. Never seize will help prevent that from happening.

Do not use gasket sealer of any type on your engine unless the factory service manual calls for it. Using it just covers up the real problem... damaged or misaligned sealing surfaces.

As Ed Y said, I've never had any problems with the stock manifold leaking, provided it's installed correctly. It sounds to me like this kit is nothing more than a ploy to seperate a customer from his/her cash when all that's really needed is a careful inspection and installation of the manifold.

Evo compliance fittings have been a source of leaks for many. It has nothing to do with improper installation in many cases. some do not think it is anything more then normal Harley tuning, (lean conditions), because the bikes don't run that bad. Start a bit harder and pop a bit etc. The manifold put out by RAM JETT is machined for a perfect alignment without the head aches of temporarily bolting on and lining up then removing the carb again. It has a solid flange mount and stadard gaskets, instead of rubber compliance gaskets and movable clamps.

I am not questioning you , I am just trying to play the devils advocate to get as much info as I can. Thats how this backyard dude learns.

Have you seen Gasgacinch? Even though Harley does not specify any gasket sealer on parts such as cam cover, tappet blocks and primary covers, I have used Gasgacinch for years with excellent results. A trick learned from a old builder buddy in Canada, who builds some of the best running, most leak free and well balanced motors on the planet! S&S customs in Weymouth Nova Scotia.
 

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rickr01 said:
Evo compliance fittings have been a source of leaks for many. It has nothing to do with improper installation in many cases. some do not think it is anything more then normal Harley tuning, (lean conditions), because the bikes don't run that bad. Start a bit harder and pop a bit etc. The manifold put out by RAM JETT is machined for a perfect alignment without the head aches of temporarily bolting on and lining up then removing the carb again. It has a solid flange mount and stadard gaskets, instead of rubber compliance gaskets and movable clamps.

I am not questioning you , I am just trying to play the devils advocate to get as much info as I can. Thats how this backyard dude learns.

Have you seen Gasgacinch? Even though Harley does not specify any gasket sealer on parts such as cam cover, tappet blocks and primary covers, I have used Gasgacinch for years with excellent results. A trick learned from a old builder buddy in Canada, who builds some of the best running, most leak free and well balanced motors on the planet! S&S customs in Weymouth Nova Scotia.
I'm not saying that those things won't work, I'm just saying that every leak I've encountered has been easily fixed with more careful installation, sometimes involving loosening the head bolts and rotating the jugs slightly, or machining the intake, which I have to do when I shave the heads. If I line up the intake so that the flanges are perfectly (as much as possible) aligned, then I do not get leaks. Thanks for going into detail about that kit, though. I'll keep it in mind if I ever have a leak I can't fix. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
ToddM said:
I'm not saying that those things won't work, I'm just saying that leak I've encountered has been easily fixed with more careful installation, sometimes involving loosening the head bolts and rotating the jugs slightly, or machining the intake, which I have to do when I shave the heads. If I line up the intake so that the flanges are perfectly (as much as possible) aligned, then I do not get leaks. Thanks for going into detail about that kit, though. I'll keep it in mind if I ever have a leak I can't fix. :D

Todd,

I am not saying it will be any better either? I'm fishing! I bought the manifold as it comes highly recommended. Some folks don't think it's an easy fix to loosen the head bolts or mahine the intake. I can do it, but damn?? If this works good WHY? Thanks for the info though, I appreciate any and all advice from those more in the know then this old back yard dog! {salute(
 

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Rick,

As I remember it, the compliance fittings on Evo's went away when HD started using the CV carb instead of the Keihn butterfly carb (big twins), in 1990. Don't know why your 98 would have compliance fittings on it?????
 

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I have used the part when I had a very heavily modified port and this part enabled me to weld and port match to the heads than had a D shaped canted floor. It worked very well with no issues. I did use Hylomar on the gaskets and regularly check the bolts and they were in with blue loctite
 

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rickr01 said:
Hey folks,

The Ram Jett intake comes with a 12 point bolt instead of the stock allens, and because of the shoulder of these bolts and the design of the manifold, the kit bolts must be used. They look like plain old steel that will rust after first wash or rain storm.

Thanks for any helpful info at all.
Rick

I can help on the bolt rust problem. www.POR15.com do two coats. Make sure all the oil is off and follow the instructions for the second coat. You will be able to then wrench on the bolt and the paint should stay put.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ed Y said:
Rick,

As I remember it, the compliance fittings on Evo's went away when HD started using the CV carb instead of the Keihn butterfly carb (big twins), in 1990. Don't know why your 98 would have compliance fittings on it?????

Ed,

You are right, and I am wrong. The fittings are not compliance on mine, however the gaskets are rubber with a floating ring that hold them down. I get intermittent leaks here, no matter what procedure I use to install. It seems to be fine initially then eventually start slowly leaking and the leak is ittermittent. I thought a rigid gasket mounted Ram Jett intake would be just the key? I bought it and it's going on, so we shall see. I was curious about others experiences with this manifold? Also want to thank everyone who responded as well as WKOHN for that POR 15 tip! Just the tip I was looking for.
 

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rickr, I had a RamJett manifold on a 1988 evo, worked great. I put about 80,000 miles on that motor with that manifold. No problem with bolts rusting but if your concerned coat them as mentioned above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
compressor#v said:
rickr, I had a RamJett manifold on a 1988 evo, worked great. I put about 80,000 miles on that motor with that manifold. No problem with bolts rusting but if your concerned coat them as mentioned above.

Thanks alot, Its going on this weekend.

Rick
 

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rickr01 said:
Todd,

I am not saying it will be any better either? I'm fishing! I bought the manifold as it comes highly recommended. Some folks don't think it's an easy fix to loosen the head bolts or mahine the intake. I can do it, but damn?? If this works good WHY? Thanks for the info though, I appreciate any and all advice from those more in the know then this old back yard dog! {salute(
I'm actually been working on a new intake design for a while now. It will be slightly longer (head to carb distance) and will have shallow spiraling grooves in the inside. I might add some "vortex generators" to help stir up the mixture as it exits the carb, then accelerating it into the heads. This will increase the distance the mixture has to travel, and, in theory, will increase the airflow speed due to the centrifugal effect. Sort of a compressed V8 tunnel ram design. I'm almost done with the drawings and plan on starting to machine it out of 6061 aluminum in a few weeks. I have a few other designs floating around in this fog-filled brain, too. LOL! Only dyno testing will prove if it works, of course. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
#@SasF# #@SasF# #@SasF# :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: :thumbsup: Atomize the mixture a bit better?? Isn't there a product that bolts between the carb and intake that already does this?

Man, you seem to really enjoy machining parts. I would love to get my hands on a decently priced used Smithy. I'm not a machinist but I am quite handy and would love to play a bit! I hate designing something I want or need and then having to take it to a shop and have it made for me. It is usually REAL expensive and rarely done exactly as I want it. I usually end up grinding, polishing etc. to get it where I designed it to be!



ToddM said:
I'm actually been working on a new intake design for a while now. It will be slightly longer (head to carb distance) and will have shallow spiraling grooves in the inside. I might add some "vortex generators" to help stir up the mixture as it exits the carb, then accelerating it into the heads. This will increase the distance the mixture has to travel, and, in theory, will increase the airflow speed due to the centrifugal effect. Sort of a compressed V8 tunnel ram design. I'm almost done with the drawings and plan on starting to machine it out of 6061 aluminum in a few weeks. I have a few other designs floating around in this fog-filled brain, too. LOL! Only dyno testing will prove if it works, of course. :D
 

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rickr01 said:
#@SasF# #@SasF# #@SasF# :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: :thumbsup: Atomize the mixture a bit better?? Isn't there a product that bolts between the carb and intake that already does this?

Man, you seem to really enjoy machining parts. I would love to get my hands on a decently priced used Smithy. I'm not a machinist but I am quite handy and would love to play a bit! I hate designing something I want or need and then having to take it to a shop and have it made for me. It is usually REAL expensive and rarely done exactly as I want it. I usually end up grinding, polishing etc. to get it where I designed it to be!
I'm sure there is something... but I'd rather try to incorporate it into the intake itself. Less parts = more reliability! Besides, someone can always build a better mousetrap. :D

I've been doing metalworking most of my life as a hobby. The only training I got was in high school, although I have been considering taking a VoTech class on it to learn about new techniques that have been developed since the 1970s. Funny how I can remember all the details of those classes, but can't remember what I ate for dinner yesterday.... LOL!

Anyway, I got tired of not being able to find a specific part that I needed, and ended up paying lots of $$ for something that would work, but was usually inferior in quality. Now, if I don't like the way something is made, or if I need something that's hard to find, I just make it myself. It might take a little more time, but the part WILL fit perfectly! It's nice to have a bike that is loaded with parts no one else has. A lot of times I will buy parts that I want, make some drawings of them, make my own copies exactly the way I want them, then sell the original for the same or more than I paid for it. ;)

Last summer I had a few people ask me to make them my version of the Carlini Torque Arm. I told them I would (for a mere $250.00) as soon as I get the time... I work two other jobs (jet engine technician and field service tech for Bombardier M7 passenger train propulsion systems), so lately I haven't had as much time as I'd like to for working on the stuff I enjoy, bikes for instance.

The machines I have didn't cost all that much. I have a mini-mill and mini-lathe from MicroMark. At the time, they cost me a total of $950 not including about $700+ in accessories. Haven't done the CNC conversion yet... maybe next Christmas. I also have a power metal cutting bandsaw, MIG welder, gas welder, drill press, a couple bench sanders, and various other useful machines. With this equipment, I can make just about anything for a motorcycle, and many parts for my 1978 F100 pickup. Since I've been working on rail cars, I've had a lot of luck getting scrap stainless steel, too. That stuff eats up cutting tools fast, though!

All in all, it's well worth the money spent, at least it is to me. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
ToddM said:
I'm sure there is something... but I'd rather try to incorporate it into the intake itself. Less parts = more reliability! Besides, someone can always build a better mousetrap. :D

I've been doing metalworking most of my life as a hobby. The only training I got was in high school, although I have been considering taking a VoTech class on it to learn about new techniques that have been developed since the 1970s. Funny how I can remember all the details of those classes, but can't remember what I ate for dinner yesterday.... LOL!

Anyway, I got tired of not being able to find a specific part that I needed, and ended up paying lots of $$ for something that would work, but was usually inferior in quality. Now, if I don't like the way something is made, or if I need something that's hard to find, I just make it myself. It might take a little more time, but the part WILL fit perfectly! It's nice to have a bike that is loaded with parts no one else has. A lot of times I will buy parts that I want, make some drawings of them, make my own copies exactly the way I want them, then sell the original for the same or more than I paid for it. ;)

Last summer I had a few people ask me to make them my version of the Carlini Torque Arm. I told them I would (for a mere $250.00) as soon as I get the time... I work two other jobs (jet engine technician and field service tech for Bombardier M7 passenger train propulsion systems), so lately I haven't had as much time as I'd like to for working on the stuff I enjoy, bikes for instance.

The machines I have didn't cost all that much. I have a mini-mill and mini-lathe from MicroMark. At the time, they cost me a total of $950 not including about $700+ in accessories. Haven't done the CNC conversion yet... maybe next Christmas. I also have a power metal cutting bandsaw, MIG welder, gas welder, drill press, a couple bench sanders, and various other useful machines. With this equipment, I can make just about anything for a motorcycle, and many parts for my 1978 F100 pickup. Since I've been working on rail cars, I've had a lot of luck getting scrap stainless steel, too. That stuff eats up cutting tools fast, though!

All in all, it's well worth the money spent, at least it is to me. :thumbsup:


Todd,
What do you think of the Smithy? Have you seen one? You are doing what I want to do! Torque arm heh! :whistle: Want to put another on your list? I've been watching ebay for a Smithy and a torque arm for a 98 Dyna.
 
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