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Discussion Starter #1
After having completed an exhaustive search (pun intended), I can see there are many opinions regarding mufflers for dressers.

The loudness of a pipe is subjective, to say the least.....what appears quiet to one is too loud for another.

My quandry is this: I will taking delivery of a FLTR in March, and am already looking for the right pipes. The ability to listen to the radio is important to me, so that factors into my decision. I used to have Samson Silver Bullet mufflers on my old 87 FLHS, and loved the sound.....but, I didn't have a radio...or delphi injection.

I love the looks of the Harley Touring Mufflers with billet end caps, but worry that I won't get any sound, or that performance will suffer.

The e-pipe sounds like the perfect balance, and appears to be the power king, but yuucckk! Looks that kill.

So the question is this: Are there any dyno comparisons published? In other words, are there "real" differences between Samson and the e-pipe, or are we talking about 2-3 horsepower at a range above what I ride?

Does the H-D Touring Muffler really yield that much in power to the others?

Do the Samson rolled thunder mufflers use the same baffle as the silver bullet?

I plan on initially doing the S-E Air Cleaner, along with the purchase of the EFI race tuner; will then probably move on to the 95" kit, probably also installing Andrews TW-26 cams (new gear drive).

TIA,

Oz
 

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The E pipe looks like $hit, but it works. Think of it this way, when you ride the bike you don't see the pipes.

I was just talking to a fellow that had a good 95 kit in a fatboy with a decent 2 into 1. Then he decided to build it further and removed all the parts, ie heads, cams, etc and put the parts in a Road King with stock headpipes and slip ons. The engine lost 12 lb/ft and 12 HP and if you consider the balancers typically cost about 3 or 4 the difference was more like 15. Then he put a E pipe on the road King. Got it all back and then some. No other changes, same dyno.


YRMV (your results may vary) but regardless of dyno numbers there is a big difference in the feel of the bike with one system and the other.

This is not your typical customer either, they run a tuning shop, a good one.
 

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I run Sampson's Rolled Thunders on my RoadGlide...sounds great, runs strong and I hear the tunes just fine.

manny
 

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Discussion Starter #4
HIPPO - Appreciate the comments: a couple of follow ups:

1. Do the Supertrapp slip ons perform as well as the e-pipe? At least one can get those with a tapered tip.

2. It is my understanding that the TC heads severely limit power....can you realize real performance gains from a cam swap without re-working the heads? In other words, will even a mild cam provide more flow potential than the stock heads can handle? What grinds would you recommend for stronger torque in the low-mid rpm range? I was thinking about Andrews TW26; I like the idea of gear drives, but S&S cams appear too radical. If one adds mild cams (TW26 for example), and then do headwork, do you then have to swap cams to maximize performance potential? My stealer recommends staying with stock cams, even with 95" kit, saying that they provide better low-mid performance than SE 203 cams.

3. Off of the above topic, can you fit mufflers that flow better than the stock heads? In other words, is there a flow limit above which mufflers will not provide any additional benefit?

Enquiring minds want to know.

TIA,

Oz
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Manny,

At what point did you install the Samsons? Did you go from stock setup to these pipes, experiment with any others, etc.

I have heard for quite awhile that Samsons are power eaters, providing a loss. Have heard this from many dealers and articles alike.

As I mentioned in my original post, I had Silver Bullet tapered on my 87 FLHS, and really liked the sound. But, that was my first big twin, so I had nothing to compare the power to, except for stock.

TIA,

Oz
 

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Yes, the Supertrapps are just about as good as the E pipes, wether slip ons or full headers. The old Trapp headers used to crack on the rubbermounts, but they reportedly have that taken care of with the new version.

The exhaust port is a bottleneck but you can make real good torque with stock heads and relatively mild cams, to make HP you need headwork. Torque is what you need.
Your dealer doesn't get out much.

Regardless of headflow these bikes like some backpressure in order to make torque.
In order to make good power you need compression, and in order to run high compression you need cam. Even a otherwise stock 95 is likely to have detonation problems, in particular with EFI. On carb bikes you can get away with a lot more.
 

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If you want to hear that radio and don't want the intercom and helmet speaker b.s. - just junk the installed speakers from HD with their 1/4 ounce magnets and get the best polypropylene speakers you can buy with integrated tweeter cones 4.25 inch round for cars and bolt them right into the same screw mounts. $40-75 per speaker. I did all four on my FLHTCUI but if you want to save money and don't care about the chatter from the back seat, just do the front speakers. Some are 4.5 inch so check first.
Or buy the HD Enhanced Stereo/sound kit for about $600 and still get bad speakers.
 

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I went to the Sampsons as soon as I got it home...I also re-jetted and did the SE Air Cleaner...I gained a tremendous amount of HP...ask Hippo if my RoadGlide suffers from power loss he's ridden with me and JimmyK rode the bike this season on our IHR II run.

To each his own but I know about ten guys running the same setup as I am that all swear by the Sampsons.
 

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Your Glide runs real strong.

But it's carbureted. Big difference.

All the 03's are EFI's.
 

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One of the things I like about Harley touring bikes is the pipes on both sides, if I had wanted the pipes on one side I could have got a fatboy. I just like that look. I have kerker pipes and carbed and rejet on flht. It runs and sounds great, it has more of a deeper rumbly sound than the Sampons, a friend has an evo with some engine work and thunder slide in the carb , and wide open sampson pipes ,and my bike is faster, mine is a twin cam so maybe thats why. ride safe rickpoco
 

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Here is the dyno data on TC 88 pipes for EFI Stock. The file is txt so turn off the word wrap if it doesn't line up.
 

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From Motorcycle Performance Guide:The test bike was a stock EFI Twin Cam TC88-B engine <snip>
Data is for a B engine. The exhaust configuration on the baggers is completely different from a softail.
When using slip ons the OEM crossover is left intact and they don't have nearly the reversion issue.
 

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Shoulda started a new post... Didn't mean to imply that the TC88 B results are the same as TC88. If I see some dyno data for baggers I'll post.
And in the next class we'll have homemade adjustable baffles for drag pipes to eliminate some of that power sag in the low RPMs when there is no crossover - all for less than $1,00. almost Free!
Anyone want the details for $1,.00 adjustable baffles for drag pipes. worth about 5-10 ft-pounds at 3000? Might half to start a new post for that.
 

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The old washer trick, eh? :D

Sort of works on the baggers. Someone I trust just modified a stock bagger crossover as suggested by welding a freeze plug into the left run of the Y pipe and grinding off the protrusion. Then he started drilling a little hole into the freeze plug, best results were with a 5/16" hole, at 3/8" it dropped a little.
 

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Damn Hippo - you know everything - musta had one of those Honda 250s 30 years ago.. I bet you used "Hippo gloves/hands" in the old days for that cold weather riding!!! Probably still got a set somewhere just in case.
Re: Adjustable baffles, indexing etc.- Its amazing - you do ten little things for 1-2 percent each - and all of a sudden you got a runner.
See separate post with some good data on TC systems. Some even by some folks at Custom Performance in AZ! wonder who they are...
 

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Might not have been a Honda, but the Hippo Hands always worked well. :D

You are right, the little stuff adds up, maybe not so much on the dyno, but makes for sweet runners for very little money.
 
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