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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just got a heritage and want to put some Vance and Hinse 2:1 pro pipes or Big Shot. This is my first Hog and I only have 80 miles, so im a real newbe. After 80 miles I cant take the stock sound anymore.

Was told that I needed to put a Power Commander on so I could get the right adjustment for my electronic fuel injection. Anyone know anything about this? Or does the Harley stage down load good enough.

Also Ill take recommendations on exhaust

impulse
 

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Hellbound Train
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5,595 Posts
Of the two pipes mentioned, the Pro Pipe is a far better performance choice. If you have no other mods in mind the flash may be all you need. If you plan future mods, I recommend the S.E. Race Tuner
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Pro Pipe

Im leaning twords the Pro Pipe and will put new air cleaner also. Will have to check out S.E. Race Tuner. Not sure what it is. Any ideas on the down load or power commander?

Oh by the way, thanks for serving our country!

Impulse
 

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Premium Member
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impulse said:
Im leaning twords the Pro Pipe and will put new air cleaner also. Will have to check out S.E. Race Tuner. Not sure what it is. Any ideas on the down load or power commander?

Oh by the way, thanks for serving our country!

Impulse
If you are changing pipe and air cleaner you will need a stage 1 flash on your ECU from the dealer $150. If pipes and air cleaner is all you are doing I would get the power commander. It is cheaper than the SERT and you can load the proper fuel map from your computer. The Power commander will give you 3 to 7 hp and run cooler with better mileage. The SERT needs a good dyno tuner to the tune of $250 to $350. The Pro Pipe is a better performer but I actually got more peak hp and tq with the big shot staggered than with my Pro Pipe. The BSS are louder, sound better and look better.
 

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Hellbound Train
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5,595 Posts
Getting the flash and power commander will cost you the same as getting the SERT. To tune either choice correctly you need Dyno time. With the SERT, I paid $180. As I said before, if all you are going to do with your bike is Pipes and A/C, get the Flash and forget the SERT, Power Commander and Dyno.
 

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csoday said:
Getting the flash and power commander will cost you the same as getting the SERT. To tune either choice correctly you need Dyno time. With the SERT, I paid $180. As I said before, if all you are going to do with your bike is Pipes and A/C, get the Flash and forget the SERT, Power Commander and Dyno.
The stage 1 flash will raise the rev limit to 6200 rpm and change the fuel curve but still leaving it to comply with lean EPA. I ran two bikes with just the flash for 30 days. The two bikes ran pretty equal. I installed the power commander myself with the instructions included, and then installed a canned map. We ran the two bikes. The bike with the PC smoked the non PC bike bad. We added a PC to the 2nd bike and they ran equal.

The power commander is well worth the money for the extra power, running cooler with better mileage. Yes a dyno tune helps as we dyno'd both bikes later. If you make additional changes to your bike you can change the PC map yourself.

I just made a modification to my Pro Pipe baffle. I added fuel to cells at 80-100% throttle and above 3500 rpm. I will have it dyno tuned again for about $100

The SERT will cost you $100 more than the PC and then you will have to pay the dealer to install it and add a dyno tune on top of that. The SERT will save you the $150 rip off the dealer charges for the ECU download and it will help with big builds because of adjustments in the timing. The best tuner in Phoenix charges $250 to $350 for a dyno turne with a SERT. It takes a whole lot more time and expertise to tune properly.

The SERT once used on one ECU is married to that ECU and cannot be used on another bike. The power commander can be taken with you if you change bikes.
 

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Premium Member
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I plan on installing a pro pipe and screamin eagle air filter along with a Power commander on my 05 flhti without the stage 1 download.My dealer here in NH said they dont do downloads anymore that I would have to get a sert but for about a hundred less I can get a power commander. So thats how Im goin.
 

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Average Dude
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madplmber said:
I plan on installing a pro pipe and screamin eagle air filter along with a Power commander on my 05 flhti without the stage 1 download.My dealer here in NH said they dont do downloads anymore that I would have to get a sert but for about a hundred less I can get a power commander. So thats how Im goin.
Hey Plumber....
Who's your dealer? Mine is Heritage in Concord.
 

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Hellbound Train
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5,595 Posts
chas2379 said:
The stage 1 flash will raise the rev limit to 6200 rpm and change the fuel curve but still leaving it to comply with lean EPA. I ran two bikes with just the flash for 30 days. The two bikes ran pretty equal. I installed the power commander myself with the instructions included, and then installed a canned map. We ran the two bikes. The bike with the PC smoked the non PC bike bad. We added a PC to the 2nd bike and they ran equal.

The power commander is well worth the money for the extra power, running cooler with better mileage. Yes a dyno tune helps as we dyno'd both bikes later. If you make additional changes to your bike you can change the PC map yourself. You can also do that with the SERT
I just made a modification to my Pro Pipe baffle. I added fuel to cells at 80-100% throttle and above 3500 rpm. I will have it dyno tuned again for about $100

The SERT will cost you $100 more than the PC and then you will have to pay the dealer to install it and add a dyno tune on top of that There is no installation of a SERT, you download the nearest map and then dyno tune, same as you would with a PCIII. The SERT will save you the $150 rip off the dealer charges for the ECU download and it will help with big builds because of adjustments in the timing. The best tuner in Phoenix charges $250 to $350 for a dyno turne with a SERT. How much does he charge you with the PCIII. My SERT was 3 hours at $60/hour and ended up with a better tune than a PCIII can give. It takes a whole lot more time and expertise to tune properly.

The SERT once used on one ECU is married to that ECU and cannot be used on another bike. The power commander can be taken with you if you change bikes. And how does the bike you got rid of run without the PCIII you kept. Was the buyer you screwed happy.
..........
 

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The bike runs fine because the PCIII doesn't overwrite the map loaded in the ECU. The buyer didn't get screwed, I actually saved him the $150 for the stage I download.
 

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I like the pro-pipe...I just can't afford one, from what I've read, you should be able to make a lot of power with it. Sert or PC, PC or Sert...oh wait what about the download...check out this post...I had the same type of questions.

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68654

I just bought the SERT, screw the other options...and screw my dealer, I bought mine from Zanotti's for $376 and going to hook it up myself.
 

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Hellbound Train
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joerob49 said:
The bike runs fine because the PCIII doesn't overwrite the map loaded in the ECU. The buyer didn't get screwed, I actually saved him the $150 for the stage I download.
Read it again a little slower, if you pull the PCIII without the Flash, a modified bike will run like ****.
 

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It is nice to share your expeiances with others,mine is I ride an 02 RKC and did the pipes and a/c ,no stage 1 no pclll, no sert,rode it and it popped on decel was sluggish,talked to others and got the same answers,then talked to an old timer that asked me some questions,1) what is different from my bikes engine to his 85 glides engine,fuel injection was my answer,then he said I adjusted my fuel trim with a jet kit for about $150.00 and you are being told it will cost $350.00 and up to do this,have you ever thought there might be other ways to adjust fuel trim,I started looking and found the TFI module from Dobeck performance,after comparing means of adjustment and cost vs effects,i found the answer to my problem ,the TFI module cost about $225.00 and took me 45 mins. to hook up and adjust,no throttle lag,no decel popping,like a whole new machine,I then probed the tail pipe with an 5 gas emissions machine and adjusted my fuel trim a little closer.I then signed up as a distributor for this component and have never looked back.
 

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csoday said:
Read it again a little slower, if you pull the PCIII without the Flash, a modified bike will run like ****.

I don't really consider a bike with just a different set of pipes and a different A/C much of a "modified" bike. It does need some tweaking to take advantage of more air and a more free flowing exhaust which, IMHO, can be accomplished using the PC with less heart burn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
thanks for reply

Thanks for all the replies. :)

I went to the Harley dealer today and watched the bikes roll in. Two bikes came in one with the v&h pro pipe and other with v&h long shots (maybe HS). I heard them both and have to say for looks and sound the Long shots seem to beat the pro. Probably not on performance but I'm not racing this thing anyway. They said all they did was the flash, a/c and pipes. Seems to run fine for them. Im still inclined to get the pc or sert.

Now my understanding of the pc is you dont need a flash (stage one) if you get the pc. The pc will take care of all the EFI needs.

impulse
 

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Hellbound Train
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chas2379 said:
All above from csoday.
csoday, you need to read and re-read again and see if you can get it straight. Quit contradicting yourself trying to make others look bad and yourself look right. The bike had the stage 1 flash. You said "If you have no other mods in mind the flash may be all you need." (Which from experience, I certainly don't agree with ). So how does the bike buyer get screwed taking the PC off when you say he didn't need it in the first place. You said all he needed was the flash and once again, the bike has the flash.

Did you get it this time?
Try to keep it in perspective, those quotes were not aimed at the original poster, this one was:
Of the two pipes mentioned, the Pro Pipe is a far better performance choice. If you have no other mods in mind the flash may be all you need. If you plan future mods, I recommend the S.E. Race Tuner
These were aimed at you:
As I said before, if all you are going to do with your bike is Pipes and A/C, get the Flash and forget the SERT, Power Commander and Dyno.
and:
And how does the bike you got rid of run without the PCIII you kept. Was the buyer you screwed happy.
This one was for Joerob:
Read it again a little slower, if you pull the PCIII without the Flash, a modified bike will run like ****

Now that we have that cleared up, this is for you:
A Stage 1 bike is a modified bike as it is moving more air through the motor. Without adding more fuel, you are now very lean. The Stage 1 Flash will address that. The PCIII will address that. If you remove the PCIII without having the Flash, the bike will run like ****. Would you ride it like that? If you bought the bike and found that to be the case, would you feel like you were screwed?
This is for you also. Big red letters are not necessary. I realize you have a
comprehension problem but is your eyesight also failing.

Impulse,
I apologize for all the above as I know you asked a simple question. Yes the PCIII will address your needs. The PCIII has many selling points. Keeping it for another bike in my opinion is not one of them
.
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
pc

I agree with that. Once a pcIII goes on it should stay with bike. If you get another bike get another pcIII. I wouldn't take it off to sell. :duh?:

Im gonna go look at some pipes on another thread and start planning. Thanks again.
 

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2005 Road King Classic
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2,649 Posts
impulse said:
Just got a heritage and want to put some Vance and Hinse 2:1 pro pipes or Big Shot. This is my first Hog and I only have 80 miles, so im a real newbe. After 80 miles I cant take the stock sound anymore.

Was told that I needed to put a Power Commander on so I could get the right adjustment for my electronic fuel injection. Anyone know anything about this? Or does the Harley stage down load good enough.

Also Ill take recommendations on exhaust

impulse
In place of a Power Commander, SERT or Flash check into a www.technoresearch.com. Their systems can rewrite the stock ECM. Will need some dyno time. But if you are going to do it right with any of the above you should have it on the dyno.
 

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wkohn said:
In place of a Power Commander, SERT or Flash check into a www.technoresearch.com. Their systems can rewrite the stock ECM. Will need some dyno time. But if you are going to do it right with any of the above you should have it on the dyno.
The Techno Research unit is the Direct Link. Usually a shop buys the unit and pays for a certain number of bikes to tune.

Doug at World Class Tuning has used the Direct Link software with excellent results on some of their bikes with the Wild Thing cams.
http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/report.htm

Nick at Custom Performance in Phoenix tunes with PC, SERT or Direct Link. He told me he prefers the SERT and gets better results.
http://www.fastbikesaz.com/

The PC is a "keep it simple unit". The SERT and Direct Link takes expertise and not a lot of tuners have the expertise to get top results.

I will be swapping the PC for a SERT, and yes I will remove the PC and sell it.
 
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