[justbill301]

Good morning from the west coast... Sorry for the double post... it's a noob thing.... But I wanted to get the last of this right in my mind before I look into 2 bikes today. My own 06 88 w/14k.... and my bud's 06 88 w/44k. Both are running well.

I've recently logged many hours reading forums and searching the interweb regarding upgrades to my 06 tc88.
First, I wanted to learn about the 'known' tensioner issue. I've read so many posts and articles. It looks to me that there are many cases of good mileage and tolerable wear on these oe spring loaded tensioners. That being said, some say that they can go to pieces, causing severe damage in only a few thousand miles. My sg has 15k now and runs great. I do want to open it up and get a look in there this winter. My current thinking is using the 07 (se?) plate you mention. I was thinking gears, but I have a few thoughts on that set up... 1, for the $, doesn't get you much hp ( 3-5 ? ), and 2- with the possible runout issue, I would worry about grinding up the gears too, as I would have some else set that up. Seems to me that the 07-up plate is reliable with proper maintenance . I have a decent little shop, lots of time, and want to do my own work.
I've also looked at many cams. Looks to me that alot of the ones recommended for the touring 88 are very similar. One thing I do know is that I'm not one to shift much beyond 4500. I'm careful not to lug it, and will shift down when needed. I ride alone for the most part, and we do a fair amount of mountain riding, as you know, here in WA. That being said, I notice that the 37's intake closes at 40, would I be better to find something around 30, since I don't ride high in the revs ? Currently it runs about 2900 at 75, usual freeway speed. I would guess, off hwy, I like to run between 2500 and 3500. One more question on cams... am I correct in that the inner bearing on my 06 is a smaller Dia than the 07-up ? Does my 06 use the torrington bearing OE ? If it is a smaller Dia, then can I assume that a cam for my 06 has 2 different bearing Dia ? One size for the case, and a larger one out front, in the plate ? What are your feelings on the increased pressure 'baisley' type spring ? I think I could go on, but that's enough for now.....

Thanx in advance

 

[95280]

Good morning from the west coast... Sorry for the double post... it's a noob thing.... But I wanted to get the last of this right in my mind before I look into 2 bikes today. My own 06 88 w/14k.... and my bud's 06 88 w/44k. Both are running well.

I've recently logged many hours reading forums and searching the interweb regarding upgrades to my 06 tc88.
First, I wanted to learn about the 'known' tensioner issue. I've read so many posts and articles. It looks to me that there are many cases of good mileage and tolerable wear on these oe spring loaded tensioners. That being said, some say that they can go to pieces, causing severe damage in only a few thousand miles. My sg has 15k now and runs great. I do want to open it up and get a look in there this winter. My current thinking is using the 07 (se?) plate you mention. I was thinking gears, but I have a few thoughts on that set up... 1, for the $, doesn't get you much hp ( 3-5 ? ), and 2- with the possible runout issue, I would worry about grinding up the gears too, as I would have some else set that up. Seems to me that the 07-up plate is reliable with proper maintenance . I have a decent little shop, lots of time, and want to do my own work.
I've also looked at many cams. Looks to me that alot of the ones recommended for the touring 88 are very similar. One thing I do know is that I'm not one to shift much beyond 4500. I'm careful not to lug it, and will shift down when needed. I ride alone for the most part, and we do a fair amount of mountain riding, as you know, here in WA. That being said, I notice that the 37's intake closes at 40, would I be better to find something around 30, since I don't ride high in the revs ? Currently it runs about 2900 at 75, usual freeway speed. I would guess, off hwy, I like to run between 2500 and 3500. One more question on cams... am I correct in that the inner bearing on my 06 is a smaller Dia than the 07-up ? Does my 06 use the torrington bearing OE ? If it is a smaller Dia, then can I assume that a cam for my 06 has 2 different bearing Dia ? One size for the case, and a larger one out front, in the plate ? What are your feelings on the increased pressure 'baisley' type spring ? I think I could go on, but that's enough for now.....

Thanx in advance

if you dont ride up in the revs, get a cam that closes the intake as quick as possible without causing you to much CCP for the pistons and heads you have. you dont have a torrigton bearing stock, HD used caged bearings and they should be replaced. bearings in case and in plate are very different.

 

[2wheelrider]

EVEN FROM EACH OTHER one is a ballbearing (front) and one is a roller bearing (rear) in the cam plate. and I think the new "N" style cams have no bearings in the cam plate :huh:

 

[justbill301]

37's close too late for me y'think ?

On the bearing- ok, needs changed to torrington inner.... My thinking is the 07-up plate, which if I'm not mistaken, has no actual bearing outside, just oil. So my choices are limited to the 'conversion' type cams ? Any suggestions ?

 

[Uncle Salty]

What is the max RPM you normally go to?

 

[justbill301]

What is the max RPM you normally go to?

4500 I'm thinkin...... But thats the stock motor, I'm a pretty mellow relaxed rider, no more beady eyes.......

 

[DURWOOD]

Andrew's 21 is a very good bolt in cam for a stage 1 88",I put a set in a friends bike and was very surprised at the noticable increase in power

 

[justbill301]

yes....seen many posts regarding the 21's and 26's....... I guess at the end of the day I will end up with app. 95" ..... just a matter of what upgrade and when...... it's almost the chicken and egg thing....hahhha ...... I think the best thing is to tear it down this winter, do the 95 bore, flat tops and moderate cp.... not afraid of mild head work, but want a durable motor capable of 100k or more, I'm not one to trade, or buy often, I buy once and it's mine til the wheels are square !

 

[justbill301]

I guess the question should be.... what's the best cam to end up with, after 95 " or so upgrade..... Probably the best answer is to do it all at once.... duh. A little bore, a little head work, and correct cams..... OK, all u builders, let's nail this down ! I want a good, durable build ! I am all about low rpm and 1up riding, love tq..... set me up and I'll order parts

 

[ardakota]

Andrews makes the kit to put the new model cam plate in but you have to use the conversion cams I came up with the cam guts out of a 09 fatboy and bought andrews 21n cams and put in my 03 tc 88 have ran them about 3500 miles so far I am completely satisfied with the decision torque right off idle and as much as I want and the bike loves hills and curves now as well as im getting almost 3 mpg better fuel mileage.

 

[justbill301]

Andrews makes the kit to put the new model cam plate in but you have to use the conversion cams I came up with the cam guts out of a 09 fatboy and bought andrews 21n cams and put in my 03 tc 88 have ran them about 3500 miles so far I am completely satisfied with the decision torque right off idle and as much as I want and the bike loves hills and curves now as well as im getting almost 3 mpg better fuel mileage.

COOL.....Ardakota......Thanx...... MORE ?

 

[Uncle Salty]

I'm no expert but I have worked with hi performance automobile engines in the past. I've only done one Harley upgrade, my '04 Road King 88" motor to a 95". I went with a Wood 6G cam, ported heads, etc. Before you decide, I'd talk with a couple of forum sponsors. Give 'em a call. There are some good guys here and I think most will give you the straight scoop no matter what your budget is. Buying from a sponsor is invaluable for guys that don't work on Harleys every day.

I've see a couple of dyno charts from a 95" motor with head work and an Andrews 26 cam that was pretty impressive. What ever you decide, make sure you have someone that can tune it properly. That will make or break a good build.

 

[justbill301]

always up for fine tunin.....










....... good stuff salty.... thanx for yer time

 

[flsg06]

on my 06 S.G. i did andrews conv kit 26 n and axtell 97 rework with tts tune--92hp 104 trq. love it as we ride very similar

 

[justbill301]

on my 06 S.G. i did andrews conv kit 26 n and axtell 97 rework with tts tune--92hp 104 trq. love it as we ride very similar

wow, good numbers. I doubt i even need that much, but nice. I assume there is head work in there also ?

 

[Steel_Tech]

Sounds like you might also benefit from the use of either the S&S 551 or 583 depending on what exhaust system you are using. That of course would have to use either the stock cam plate or the SE upgrade for your model year. You would have to keep the older style bearings and older style inner chain. As many have said, you could also go with the Andrew's kit. You could actually go both ways...use their conversion or use SE. Your preference. I would choose a cam that seems to put the power band where you want it and then look at cam plates and the likes. I would always recommend a big bore kit as it is one of the cheapest ways to get that extra kick. For around $300 you can go big bore with all genuine HD parts (if you have someone bore your cylinders).

I said the S&S stuff because that is what I will be going with for my next build and sounds like your criteria is similar. Make good low end power without going really high on static compression. I am choosing the 583 cause I want to stretch it out some, but I need to use a better exhaust than the stock touring headers to make good use of the cam. The 551 is all low end. Suppose to be pretty much exactly like the HD 255 with maybe just a little more meat. The graphs I've seen from those 2 cams boast real good numbers where it seems like you are trying to make power. The andrews 37 makes good numbers as well, but its peaks are a little further to the right than the 551. The 583 is odd....I would suggest just looking at some of the graphs it makes. Based on what I see from that cam though, that I what I have chosen for my next build. It has a short intake length, but it stretches the exhaust timing out to make sure to gets 29 degress of valve overlap and is an early intake close like you said to make low end power.

Either way, there are many options. You don't HAVE to get the conversions to stay safe. At the HD shop, we would replace cam chain shoes every 30k miles. You could get the conversions if you want, but that does limit your cam selection. You could get the SE plate and have more cam options, but you have a few older style components in the kit. I am going with SE cam plate and S&S cam. I don't mind the older press style bearings on the older style chain. You pick the cam for you and then see what options are available. Good luck.

Steel

 

[justbill301]

Thanx for the insights, I will look into those cams. Would you say that you are of the 'build around the cams of your choice' camp ? Makes sense to me. Will you be doing any headwork ? Some have suggested mild street port, valve guides and larger intakes also. Of course, that leads to the now or later type questions, and the cost issues. I might see some advantage to the bore and cam now, heads next time approach, but then I read where this can be like shooting yourself in the foot too . Some say heads first.......

To make things worse, I'm still undecided on exhaust and tuning. I actually like the stock exhaust, and was leaning toward keeping it, welding in 02 bungs, so I can run a thundermax auto tune. I've been told I have se mufflers, but I'm not convinced, even tho I have a part number. My thinking on the exhaust was that since I like the looks and sound, I could save plenty on the exhaust. For me, a 2-1 is out of the question ( i know, it's best ), but it's a bagger.... and some things I have read, the stock set up and mufflers is not a 'bad' match for length, dia, pressures, etc.... and that I may only leave a couple horses on the table. Also adds to the 'sleeper' effect ?

The tmax autotune is something I've always found interesting. I want to do my own work, and my bike may never see a dyno.... ( there, I said it )....

I don't really even know a good wrench or tuner in my area yet. My friend thought he had one til recently, the indy changed drive belt, new wheel & tire, pads, rotor, etc... went to pick it up and the guy couldn't find the shift lever. We put it back on and my bud rode it home. The brakes drug all the way, and the belt had an 1 1/2 of slop in it. Took the rest of the afternoon getting the brakes bled, tires and belt adjusted.....

Back to our builds...... So you don't think it's critical to change the inner cam bearing to torrington type ?

If I chose the bore and cam now, heads next time approach, how do I choose the right pistons that will be right for the future headwork and compression ? I can see how some cam choices might even lower comp and effect performance. I can sure see why it's best to do it all at once, I read so many here that you need the head work to get the best out of the cams.

I know the sponsors here are highly regarded, but I have not spoken to any as yet. I would rather, at least at this stage, rely on the members insights and my own twisted thought patterns first.

I sometimes think i may be a little paranoid regarding some upgrades. I get conflicting info on the inner cam bearings, and tensioner set-ups. But, for me, right now, I'm thinkin new se plate and inner bearing upgrade. Bore kit with an eye down the road on head work, or just do the head work and have it done right from the git. The latter is sounding best ( today ). Will need to find local, or ship to, shop for bore and possible headwork.

Today, I need a TIRE, and go for a RIDE, soon the weather will turn here in the NW..... later......

BILL

 

[1fast2liter]

well you could go with se flat tops or ss flatts or go for the 10.25-1 pistons. then when you get head work the porter will mill your heads to desired compressin based on your pistons and cam combo.. ill say it now built it nce and build it right.. when i did my 103 stroker i had the crank trued and welded right away. i had it all done in one go..... decide what you want right away... the ss 510 cam is a good cam you can bolt in and go.. gear drive and upgraded bearings right away... next step up would be a 585 cam they also have the ez start cams with the built in compression releases so you can use a higher compresion if you want. from their what do you want for exhaust being you are a cruiser wanting a lil more go to a true dual setup with some vance and hines slipons... and of course if you want that lil more go for a mikuni carb 45mm better throttle response and even better gas mileage.

 

[Birddog415]

510G's ...good all around cam.

"I don't really even know a good wrench or tuner in my area yet. My friend thought he had one til recently, the indy changed drive belt, new wheel & tire, pads, rotor, etc... went to pick it up and the guy couldn't find the shift lever. We put it back on and my bud rode it home. The brakes drug all the way, and the belt had an 1 1/2 of slop in it. Took the rest of the afternoon getting the brakes bled, tires and belt adjusted....."

If I had to help the guy find the parts he should have put back on himself and then baby the bike home and do more adjustment work on it(i.e..do HIS work)I'd be asking for some money back and then find someone else ..anyone besides him again .
I usually drop my own wheels , take the wheel in to have the tire changed/balanced and then do my own brake pad change. its parts out , parts in , not hard at all. There shouldn't even be a need to bleed the brakes unless he opened up the system outside of popping the cap. Save yourself some labor charges and buy a good motorcycle jack and a manual (and tools!)with the money you'll save.

 

[flsg06]

wow, good numbers. I doubt i even need that much, but nice. I assume there is head work in there also ?

no-did a tts and had the work done by doc in minneola ,fla.--find a great tuner-he spent 6hrs on mine. its perfect. good luck.:clap: