EPA - Anything to really worry about?

3025 Views 42 Replies 29 Participants Last post by timbo, Feb 6, 2006

BigMike

Discussion Starter · Jan 6, 2006

Been reading the EPA articles in American Iron. Anyone really worried? I faxed the form to MRF. Seems like if the EPA starts enforcing the rules, it could affect a billion dollar aftermaket business or businesses. It would also kill new bike sales. Who wants to ride a stock Harley? Guess they'll be making more SE models.

http://www.mrf.org/pdf/EPA-AI-1.pdf

http://www.mrf.org/pdf/EPA-AI-2.pdf

So lets say you have a 95" build and have to put the stock air cleaner and exhaust back on. Can the motor even be tuned to accept those?

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LAF

· #2 · Jan 6, 2006

thatoldbike said:
Been reading the EPA articles in American Iron. Anyone really worried? I faxed the form to MRF. Seems like if the EPA starts enforcing the rules, it could affect a billion dollar aftermaket business or businesses. It would also kill new bike sales. Who wants to ride a stock Harley? Guess they'll be making more SE models.

http://www.mrf.org/pdf/EPA-AI-1.pdf

http://www.mrf.org/pdf/EPA-AI-2.pdf

So lets say you have a 95" build and have to put the stock air cleaner and exhaust back on. Can the motor even be tuned to accept those?

I guess if you have EFI and a good fuel management system you could go lean enough to pass, that will be my first attempt anyway. If I can get it done pass or fail with no DMV report I will do that first to see where I need to go to pass for X minuets of run time for the sniffer.

Since we are set up in PA for cars already, tail pipe readings right to DMV, over dial up, before the sticker is issued, I don't see it as a far leap to implement this for motorcycles.

I don't think the EPA gives a rat's a$$ about aftermarket industries in this matter. And at a State level if they don't comply, they loose their federal funding so you know state will follow Federal.

Still all speculation but some form of control is going to happen soon enough. I am surprised the Sunny Left Coast don't have it there already.

LMM

· #3 · Jan 6, 2006

The automotive market has adjusted to and compensated for the testing and standards that have been in place for well over 20 years.

I expect the motorcycle market will as well.

I'll give up an air cleaner and pipes when they make the farting ricer cars do the same.

JamieWG

· #4 · Jan 7, 2006

No one can predict the future, but two things come to mind..

1. They can't inspect your bike every single day.

2. The rules are always tighter for new vehicles at the manufacturer's level. Once they are privately owned, the tests they have to pass aren't nearly as strict.

Sending in the protest letters won't hurt anything and it might even help, so don't stop doing it... but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it either.

Fatb0y

· #5 · Jan 7, 2006 (Edited)

If they do start inspections which will be in your blue kiss a tree huge a squirrel states first, then it would be on the new models that came from the factory with a Cathlytic convertor already installed first. It wouldn't effect as many older bikes as people think. Once they made a fortune for the states by doing unnecessary testing to stop the non-existant green house effect (now called Climate Change by the left since its not getting hotter) then those states will start forcing older bikes back to a certain year to comply to some level of emmissions.

I don't predict this anytime soon, but I know if they do enforce it that I have my stock pipes under my house and you only test once a year. I will change back to the older pipes, tow my bike in for inspection to keep from running it all the way over, pass, go back home, and change back to my after market pipes.

SYCLONE

· #6 · Jan 7, 2006 (Edited)

Since they cant ride them on the rollers (loaded test) states that test bikes now are warm idle tests. So dont sit there waiting your turn at idle..shut it off..cause if they check for NOX , high combustion chamber temps will make it high. You want the motor at normal operating temp....not HOT.

Set the warm idle speed up to around 1300 rpms if there is ANY kind of cam in the motor other than stock....added over lap due to increased duration will really add to the HC emissions at normal idle speeds of 950-1000. So the raised idle that smooths the motor out and eliminates the "lope" also really cleans up the exhaust and drops the HC's significantly.

crash1292

· #7 · Jan 7, 2006

well lets see...if you buy two identical bikes at the same time, mod one, keep one stock and switch plates......................

LAF

· #8 · Jan 7, 2006

SYCLONE said:
Since they cant ride them on the rollers (loaded test) states that test bikes now are warm idle tests. So dont sit there waiting your turn at idle..shut it off..cause if they check for NOX , high combustion chamber temps will make it high. You want the motor at normal operating temp....not HOT.

Set the warm idle speed up to around 1300 rpms if there is ANY kind of cam in the motor other than stock....added over lap due to increased duration will really add to the HC emissions at normal idle speeds of 950-1000. So the raised idle that smooths the motor out and eliminates the "lope" also really cleans up the exhaust and drops the HC's significantly.

Good info, just what I was looking for if I have to trick fuc the machine. With my cam I have to idle really rich 12.9 or so to hold 1050 RPM.

I may have to let someone go ahead while I have to put the laptop and the serial cable on the TCFI.:yes:

Or get there early, stop around the corner and load, go to them, park and cool off. With the o2 sensor I can see where I am at so if 12.9 yields 1050 on hot idle I would increase RPM to 1300 and follow the math on AFR.

The sky is not falling, it is just getting a little darker on the horizon, we need to be looking at what we MAY have to do to run our bikes the way we want.

Push comes to shove I got the bike I am going to die with in the Road Glide so I would declare it a custom as a last resort. As I said before it is the younger guys that are going to hurt on this as they may not be ready to commit their ashes, to their current bikes.

I think there will be a "grandfather clause" and those bikes will be of great used value when all this "war of the EPA" shitz hits.

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Otto

· #9 · Jan 11, 2006

this needs to be addressed big time as a shop owner i would have to say 90% of my bussiness would be gone if they enforce this. mostly working with components or complete engines and doing machine work for local dealers even though i do work on the "old iron pre 78" there is not enough of it out there to keep the doors open.

HDWRENCH

· #10 · Jan 11, 2006

Depending ion what really becomes of inspections , there are cam that will make epa standards and still make big numbers. Making 130/130 with carb and pass the sniffer test can b e done in fact how about 160hp and pass??? I was able to get through first time around with a bit of tweaking on my map. bike still ran good not as good as when at 13.2 but it still did run without really problems. A cough here and there but not as bad as I would have thought. My cam has a ton of overlap I really thought I was going to have big issues. Gotta love EFI a simple map swap and I was in buisness.
I am wondering to what level they will be at in 08 for bikes. Maybe 4 O2's pre and post cat,???>

timbo

· #11 · Jan 11, 2006

Not sure how they do it elsewhere, but here if your vehicle is a 96 and up they don't even put the sniffer in the pipe. They hook up a cable to your OBDII port and look for emissions related trouble codes.

I found out that it ain't real simple to trick anyone there. If you have a code stored, simply clearing it with a diagnostic tool right before the test won't work. What will happen is that once the code is cleared, the OBDII system will set a "drive cycle incomplete" code in the PCM which means the owner/operator must operate the vehicle so many miles or start ups before the computer clears the itself of the drive cycle code. They will fail you if the drive cycle code is still there. So if you got a bad 02 sensor or something emissions related you might as well bite the bullet and fix it.

It will be interesting nonetheless on how they will do emissions testing on bikes here when the time comes.

TXCHOP

· #12 · Jan 11, 2006

you are correct timbo. I always agree that you should fix any problem with the emission control of a vehicle. But sometimes thats not an option....There are always ways around it......I am sure you have heard of people getting stickers over the phone and not even having the car there....it is possible....:whisper:

timbo

· #13 · Jan 11, 2006

TXCHOP said:
you are correct timbo. I always agree that you should fix any problem with the emission control of a vehicle. But sometimes thats not an option....There are always ways around it......I am sure you have heard of people getting stickers over the phone and not even having the car there....it is possible....:whisper:

Here it's not a sticker. It's a printout you receive at the testing center with a tear away coupon with your vehicles info and testing results that you must present to the county clerk along with your registration to get your tags renewed.

I wish it was as simple as a sticker believe me.

TXCHOP

· #14 · Jan 11, 2006

oh and i thought NY was bad.....you have to bring it to the county clerk...that must be a PITA.....here any certified shop with the equipment can do the job.

BigMike

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 11, 2006

In GA for cages, you have to take the certificate every other year when you get tags. You won't likely find many people that will "give" you a free pass at an inspection station. Violators get their state inspection license pulled and can face jail time.

timbo

· #16 · Jan 11, 2006

TXCHOP said:
oh and i thought NY was bad.....you have to bring it to the county clerk...that must be a PITA.....here any certified shop with the equipment can do the job.

I should have also noted that you can mail it in as well.

apes

· #17 · Jan 11, 2006

Well, "I have heard" that when one registers a non compliant Calif registered street dragster, a SMOG technition can over to the house and ........well, $100 buys you alot....

wyodude

· #18 · Jan 11, 2006

apes said:
........well, $100 buys you alot....

Hell yeah, it's the American way :yes:

vafatboy

· #19 · Jan 11, 2006

I've heard that the EPA didn't do the proper studies to back up the requirements for motorcycles and that there is a lot of "debate" going on.

I'm not quite sure about the source of this yet, but the person we're getting it from is connected with current Senate "bigs".

Take that for what it's worth, he could be full of it. But according to him the fight is still on.

Fxsts103ci

· #20 · Jan 11, 2006

NY the car must be present for 98 and newer , They hook it up to the puter the diagnostic runs all data from the cars puter and reports directly to DMV if the car passed or failed. No way around it as the puter has all info on emissions for the car along with the Vin#and mileage older cars are still saftey in the northern counties . metro NYC area its a sniffer test.

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