[sglide]

Hi everyone,
I have spent the last 3 days trying to get a basic understanding of my TC88 and what I could do to enhance the performance slightly.

I have a 01 FXD with 6000 miles, the only mods done to this point are an S&S carb and Cycle Shack pipes. It was dyno tested with SE slip ons(which were on prior to the C S pipes) and the numbers came in at 69 hp and 78.5 ft lbs torque, I was told it might be a little higher now with the pipes.

I do a lot of 2 up riding with my wife and am in the market for a little more power when I am cruising the interstate and want to pass a vehicle.

In the last few days I have received many opinions on the different options out there.

My dealer has a 95/95/95 special for 3149.00 which you can view at:
http://www.sthd.com/winter_service_special_one.htm

This is more than I want in power and more than I would spend.

I had some who thought a new cam and the SE ignition system would be right for what I am looking for(with the right cam of course), and leave everything else the same.

And there were many varied options to the cam and ignition set up,
like 95" pistons with head work etc:

My question to you is:
Has anyone here done the cam and ignition upgrade, and is it worth it, and does it keep the motor reliable?

I like this option for cost(what I would not mind spending)/benifit(getting some extra power but not wanting a race bike) reasons.

I appreciate any and all opinions on the subject.

Thanks, Sglide

 

[FifthGear]

Sglide, I'm no racer but it doesn't sound like you are wanting to build a screamer so the mods that you are wanting to do should not sacrifice reliability or longivity to any large extent. The further you venture from a "square" motor, the more you lose in wear. For instance if you were building a stroker, the piston speed would be greater for the same rpm which would mean greater wear. The people I know with 95"ers and mild mods have had no reliabilty problems as of yet. If you would like to see a chart of some different combinations of mods and see just what kind of change that it would mean in torque and horsepower then take a look at this link.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist_twin_cam.htm

 

[HIPPO]

A cam and SE ignition, with a S&S carb and stock compression and displacement, is probably the worst combination you can possibly pick for riding two up, and I'll wager someone with a stock bike and just the Cycle Shacks would kick your butt (when riding two up)

Forget HP, you want torque, and you want it in the low midrange.

The answer depends very much on your riding style, but all the answers involve chucking the S&S. It can be a decent carb, but not in that application.

Why don't you explain your riding style, your usual speeds and type of roads, weight of you and your wife, how often you ride over 5000 rpm, etc.


Displacement and compression make torque, cams and heads move it up in the rpm range and make HP.
Wether you can do your own wrenching or have to depend on a dealer makes a big difference in approach and ultimate cost.

 

[sglide]

Hippo,

**Why don't you explain your riding style, your usual speeds and type of roads, weight of you and your wife, how often you ride over 5000 rpm, etc.**

I would consider myself a moderate rider, I don't do burn outs, drag race on the roads, or scream from every light to light. I do "run it hard when riding solo" but not doing any of the above mentioned.

When we travel on the highways we push betwen the 65 to 75 mph range with the bike loaded and the same with just the 2 of us on the shorter trips (no bags).

Country road trips we ride whatever speed is safe for the roads.

Type of roads are Northeast roads, which tend to be hilly if that is what you are asking.

190lbs (me) 120lbs (my wife)

I have no tac on my FXD, but guessing not to often do I get >5000.

My local bike shop suggested I go with the S&S when I first purchaed the bike. I was going to add a thunder slide kit and the SE air box, from the dealer. When I told him my intentions he handed me a stock CV carb and an S&S and continued by telling me the benifits of it vs going with the kit and air box, for just a small amount of money more the S&S seemed the way to go. A few months later I got rid of the SE slip ons and went with the Cycle Shack pipes.

The FXD runs great the way she is right now, I have never had her bog down. What I am looking for is more power when traveling down the road to get around the tractor trailers on the highway which most of them do 70mph cruising anymore, if I did need it.

**The answer depends very much on your riding style, but all the answers involve chucking the S&S. It can be a decent carb, but not in that application.**

I will use the S&S in a proper applicaton before I chuck it. I see guys and listen to them bitch all year long about their stock CV carbs, and I have had no problems with the S&S in the app it is in now.

**Wether you can do your own wrenching or have to depend on a dealer makes a big difference in approach and ultimate cost.**

I know my limitations, I am a Firefighter/EMT and have been for 14 years, I know how to and feel comfortable, going into burning buildings and/or trying to save someones life in a pre-hospital setting. But I do not have the background/tools to wrench my own bike. I do the basics but that is all, so labor cost is a factor.

Thanks

 

[HIPPO]

Well, I have a way of looking at things that is a little outside the norm. I think that if I were in your place I would bore out the cylinders, blueprint deck height and chamber volume and buy a set of HD 95 flat top pistons with .032" head gaskets.

About $150.00 in parts and the same in machine work. In your case you would have to add the labor.

You might, in particular running the S&S carb, need a different ignition and depending on wether you want the old and proven or the potentially better use the Crane or the new HQ ignition.

If I wanted to go further, then I would start thinking cams, but they will move the torque peak up in the range. 211's work well with that combination, but I prefer HQ cams. You will have to adjust riding style somewhat with cams, in particular when it comes to to roll on's at cruising speed.


Check their site out, their combinations work very well on the street, and they are very helpful if you need some questions answered. Just to clarify the point, I have no connection with them whatsoever, other then I like their stuff and thinking for STREET engines.

HQ

 

[bub]

Hey Hippo ,are you recommending to stay with the Keihin carb or going to a different aftermarket carb {Mikuni}? Thanks!!

 

[HIPPO]

The stock CV is the best carb you'll ever have for up to maybe 100 HP, with the exception of the CV44. Mikuni is a good carb, and it gives what appears to be better throttle response, but you will not find the difference with a stopwatch or a dyno.

The only reason I mention the ignition is as a last resort in case you run into detonation problems.

 

[GROUCHO]

Upstate...

Hippo,

Type of roads are Northeast roads, which tend to be hilly if that is what you are asking.


Thanks

The best thing WE...(Fellow Noreaster) could do is move down next to Hippo's place!!LOL...We could then ride all year!!!
If if wasn't for the high taxes I enjoy paying ....I'd move in a minute!!

 

[supersport]

Re: Engine mods...

sglide,

Take a look in the 2002 parts and accesories book at the HTCC heads, pistons, intake and SE 211 cams. Touted to really enhance low end performance. There are several dyno charts in the P & A book that give you a good idea as what to expect from different mods and packages that you'll have to select your self. No prepackaged kits for the carb models as of yet.

If you do the cams, don't get too crazy. The 211s are pretty good for low end. Go any more radical and you'll need to do the high comp. forged pistons and trick heads to realize any real gains and it'll be off the cam until around 3,000 rpm, so there goes your low end grunt.

Read the ignition descriptions carefully. There are a few different modules with the same rev limit but different advance curves. There is also an adjustable one out there which wasn't available when my engine was done up.

You've already gotten the cheapest power gains out of it with carb and exhaust mods. Any further performance gains netted will cost around $100 per horsepower conservatively.

As for the S&S carb, I'm uncertain as to how well the Twin Cam responds to this carb. I've been told and observed that an additional fuel circuit is neccasary to eliminate inherant flat spots. An aquaintence of mine is running two thunderjets on his S&S carbed 96" Shovel. Then again he's pushing 100 horses with this 11 second rigid.

The hot setup for what your looking for seems to lie with the HTCC parts. Don't know where or if the S&S fits in the picture but it's ultimately up to you. A correctly tuned Mikuni or the original Keihin w/Thunderslide and rejetting will work well. Good luck with the build.

Mike

 

[HIPPO]

The best thing WE...(Fellow Noreaster) could do is move down next to Hippo's place!!LOL...We could then ride all year!!!

For a couple of years. Then you start freezing your ass off when it's 50F. LOL

 

[badfxd]

Sglide, read thru what everyone else has posted and have the following to offer. I agree, it's big $ to swap out to 95" motor. I don't think the reliability will be an issue. I know a few guys who have the 88" punched to a 95" and haven't had any issues.

It sounds like the big issue here is the $, and I agree totally. I guess the thing to look at is to do this in stages. You've already got the exhaust and hopefully a SE1 kit on the carb. I would recommend a SE ignition or a similar ignition, this will get you a little bit more punch thru the torque curve. The big thing would be a cam or in your case cams. Go with the Andrews gear driven, by far the best out there.

Another thing you might try is to run different plugs. I run the Split Fires, they work great in my EVO, but a lot of folks hate them. I love 'em.

If you try these "smaller" steps first and still aren't happy with the power of the up grades then punch it out and try the 95" kit. The ignition you can do yourself, the cams, I'd let a mechanic do, those can get a little tricky, plus you'll need a special tool.

Good luck.

BADFXD

 

[sglide]

badfxd,

You are right on target with money being the issue. I could go the big dollars if I felt it was neccessary, but I don't. I have a wife and kids and even a grandchild at 41, and there are certainly other more...... blah...blah...blah....I know I don't have to explain to anyone here. I just don't want to throw it for the sake of throwing it, if I do not have to.

I have as you mentioned already, the Cycle Shack pipes and a S&S Carb with a K&N filter.

I have spoke with the service manager at the dealer. We are talking about the SE Race Ignition system 6200rpm kit, adjustable pushrods and a cam kit (about $750.00 plus tax). This set up would give me about 89 ft lbs of torque and 75 hp which would be up from 78.5 torque and 69 hp which was what my bike was dyno tested at (with SEII slip ons not the Cycle Shack pipes).

Page 26 in the 2002 HD catalog shows the results of this modification bottom left. If I am reading it right that is what I am looking for.

I belive this is the route to go at this point, as long as he sets me up with the correct cam for where I am looking for the power to be. If I feel it is not enough, I will continue on with the cyclinders, pistons etc:

Again my goal was to have a little more power on the highway when passing vehicles.

I will give the spilt fire plugs a shot.

I appreciate your help, thanks.

http://www.ranchoweb.com/images/sglide/mvc-012s.jpg

Sglide

 

[badfxd]

Sglide, like ya said it's all about the $. The 88 is a great motor, doesn't need to much to hope it up. With the SE1 kit on the carb, an exhaust, and a set of cams and pushrods and an ignition, you should be set. I know the ladies bike pulls away from my EVO with no problem. I hate that too. I was going to do a bunch of motor work to mine but then realized that for what I would spend in "upgrades" I could put a stock Harley 88" in mine. So when it comes time to repair or replace the motor, it's a stock HD 88", then a set of cams.

I remember when my FXD looked like yours. They're great bikes. Here's an old picture of mine.

Good luck with yours.

BADFXD

 

[supersport]

Spring's comin'...

Yo S Glide,

Sounds as if you're on the right track to the performance gains. As I mentioned in a previous post, the SE 211 cams, 95" w/ flat tops and the 6200 RPM ign. should get you the most bang for your buck. A friend of mine is running this set up in his Wide Glide and is pushing the 95 lb. ft. mark.

If you'd like, I can refer you to an independent wrench who really knows his V-Twins and would more than likely be up on the Twin Cams by now. He has built quite a few trick bikes and can really make a Shovel talk. He built his personal bike, a dual disc rigid 96" Shovel making over a hundred horse. He's in the Zippers 11 Second Club. He's located in McDonough, under an hour from you. Works in Binghamton. He's Known at your dealership.

The Shovel he rides is pretty reliable, races it, rides the sh!t out of it and it stays together. You may have seen it around, dark red metallic, runs a '40 Ford tail light, polished aluminum diamond plate oil tank and an open belt drive primary. The bike is nicely done with alot of one off, hand hewn parts.

Talking with him and picking his brain is free and the guy is in the know.

Mike

 

[FifthGear]

Sglide, I really don't think that you are going to benefit from going with the split fires. Electrical current is going to take the path of least resistance. You would be money ahead if you would just assure the proper heat range and index your plugs. Indexing washers are cheap and about the best you can do.

Later,

 

[sglide]

Badfxd, Supersport and FifthGear

Badfxd, Supersport and FifthGear,

Badfxd thanks again for your help, and nice looking ride!

Supersport I feel pretty comfortable with Sothern Tier HD, the service manager there is a decent guy, but thanks for your help and the offer of your buddies help, if things change I will get back to you.

FithGear I appreciate all your help also.

Thanks again,

http://www.dirthurts.com/images/sglide/newbike11a.jpg

 

[supersport]

How you doin'?

Hey S Glide,

Once warm weather rolls around why don't ya hop on 17 East and hook up with my Step Bro and me for a putt. If you catch me in a good mood you could turn up the wick on my FXDX and see if the mods are to your liking. It may give you some insight on which direction to go with your build. If nothing else it'll be a day out with the boys.

If we meet in Hancock we could ride out Rt. 191 or 97 & 652 to 6 to Baer H-D in Honesdale. Good folks there! You and Tom the Service Manager could talk turkey about your performance goals and options. Therefor giving you yet another educated assessment of what to do with your scoot.

By the way, saw the pic of your bike on another site. Nice ride!

My final bit of input to your dilema is; If you don't want to throw alot of money at it right now, just ride the crap out of it! That's what you bought it for in the first place anyway! Later

Mike

 

[sglide]

supersport,
I will take you up on that! Give me an e-mail a day in advance or hell the spur of the moment will do, that you are thinking of a ride and I will hook up with you guys. My mother and a couple of brothers live in Kirkwood which is where I grew up, so I traveled out your way many times in my youth. I am a FF/EMT and have a constantly rotating schedule which gives me a lot of time off! So you can reach me at [email protected]
Thanks again,

http://www.dirthurts.com/images/sglide/newbike11a.jpg

 

[supersport]

Sglide,

Back to the salt mine today... Work sucks! What with the 50 deg. temps. just wanted to blow it off and ride so I stayed in the shop doing a truck troubleshooting session with a newbie and ignored the sunshine. Still alot of salt on the roads to make a mess out of the scoot. Weather man says we'll be dumping more tin termites on the roads come Thursday. Though I do believe Winter is in its last throws! Once the Spring rains wash the roads clean, I'll drop you a line in your email. Saturdays are usually good for me.

Baer H-D has their Spring open house the first or second Saturday in April if my memory serves me right. It's a good time! Eats, softdrinks, coffee and looney tunes. You'll here from me when they send my invite. Usually get them a month in advance.

They also do a cancer run and parade to the Wayne County Fair in August. This ride always has a good turnout. $15 or $20 to register for the parade to the fair and admission is included. I've never done that one due to either rain or forgetfulness. Everyone speaks highly of it though. As I said before, they're a great bunch of people. Very down to earth!

See ya around

Mike

 

[sglide]

supersport,

Yesterday (tuesday) 8 of us got out from noon until 4, put around 80 miles on in between stops, it was warmer at 3 than at 12 but it was perfect all the way around for a February day. The main roads were clear as we stayed off the back roads. Then I got out this morning again with a buddy for a few hours, made a stop at STHD and picked up the front blinker relocation kit, put it on this afternoon and like the look a lot, clears the handlebar area up. I'll post a couple a pics tomorrow when I can get a pic in the daylight vs the garage light. I have done a lot in that area:
replaced:
the stock black risers with chrome(stock FXDWG the same size as FXD)
the stock polished visor with a chrome one
the stock polished levers with chrome
the stock grips with Kuryakyn ISO chrome grips
the stock black speedo bracket with chrome
the stock black handlebar clamp with chrome
the stock chrome headlight small clamp with the thicker one
the stock black master cylinder cover with a chrome one
here are a couple of pics.......
http://www.ranchoweb.com/images/sglide/mvc-022s.jpg
http://www.dabros.net/images/sglide/mvc-023s.jpg

Anyway the Baer open house sounds great along with the cancer run, just let me know and if I am not working...........I am in.
I am heading to Myrtle Beach Bike week May 10th for a week, first time for me but a couple of the guys I am going with have been before and say it's a good time, looking forward to that.

later

http://www.dabros.com/images/sglide/primaryside1a.jpg