I'm about to pull the trigger on an 06 Big Dog. My concern is all the articles I've been reading about the new EPA standards for California and eventually all states on bikes starting with 2006 models. Are the 2005's exempt from this? Anyone really know what's up with this? I don't want a bike I can't modify.
Emissions Question / Emissions Question Too
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From I been reading 06 is the kiss of death, atleast to me. If your only ging to keep it for years maybe not big deal. But my crystal ball tells me 2006 will be the begining of strict enforcement. Might not start thsi year, but when they start doing emmisions, your going to see all models from 2006 until present being tested.
Also in 2006 your only allowed one emmisions exempt bike bike in your lifetime. Is this one it?
I would do some research. I would think you could find those things used with low miles if you look.
Also in 2006 your only allowed one emmisions exempt bike bike in your lifetime. Is this one it?
I would do some research. I would think you could find those things used with low miles if you look.
The 06 law has no emissions effects on any hds purchased. The law states the fleet avereage of hd must not go above a certain level. But not all 06 hds must exceed this level as its an avereage of the fleet. ... the exemption for 1 lifetime custom made bike already is in effect 06 was not the start year as initially stated, go ahead and get the 06 no worries.
I used hd as an exmple because I was worried to about purchasing an 06nightrain, after researching
I decided to get it. -there is no kiss of death with an 06 purchase.
I used hd as an exmple because I was worried to about purchasing an 06nightrain, after researching
I decided to get it. -there is no kiss of death with an 06 purchase.
Ummm, what is your source, for this info? Everything I have seen said '06. You say '06 wasn't the start year for this, but you negelect to specify what year this started. So what year did this start? Inquiring minds wantta know.RepoMan said:
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If you remember there was no emissions requirement on vehicles dated '76 and older but now most states with big cities have emissions testing as a requirement of registration or titling a car or truck, it's only a matter of time before the powers that be begin to include motorcycles in those tests (if nothing else but to collect the fees)...diesels are beginning to lose their exempt status as we speak. The other issue with '06 bikes is that this year will be an enforcement milestone, it remains to be seen and will likely be tested in court but '06 is when limitations on exhaust/intake and other mods will be enforced. We still modify the older bikes but the EPA mandated no modification to the exhaust/intakes some years ago, they have now decided that it's time to enforce those mandates and at this point appear to only be interested in '06 or newer bikes. The are and will be numerous companies attempting to get EPA approval for aftermarket parts but it's still a huge question as to how it will all play out. That said the '06 bikes are still really nice bikes and if that's your interest buy one!RepoMan said:
January's American Iron explains in great detail what manufactures have to do to meet the new standards. There have been laws in effect since 1979 as to the modification of stock bikes. All of our bikes that have modified exhausts/intake have been on the wrong side of the EPA standards. The law states in effect that the bike's emmission control systems cannot be modified from the way they were approved by the EPA.
Starting in '06 severe fines ($10,000 for each offense and by offense it means each time the bike is run) can be handed out to the shop that has modified any bike from the EPA standards. AI stated that some CA shops have already been hit with fines for this that are already on the books.
From what I've read bikes since 1979 that have emmissions systems modified in any way, without having a EPA test to see if they are complient, are violating the law, although already doing so, but not being enforced.
The MRA is soon meeting with the EPA and is going to recommend changes to the suggested law. They (MRA) is asking for input from bike builders/modifiers as to how the bill should be changed.
'06 aren't the kiss of death, they are just the year manufactures have started to build bikes to the new EPA regs.
If Big Dog's engines have met and passed the EPA regs, then you're in the clear, as long as nothing is done to the emmissions systems.
Interestingly the emmissions system is considered modified if you add any of the following: Wider tire; Different gearing; Different trans; basically anything that would make the bike perform differently from how it came stock.
At least that's how I've read the bill to be. It's really still just a suggested bill, so all this could and should change before becoming law.
darrell
Starting in '06 severe fines ($10,000 for each offense and by offense it means each time the bike is run) can be handed out to the shop that has modified any bike from the EPA standards. AI stated that some CA shops have already been hit with fines for this that are already on the books.
From what I've read bikes since 1979 that have emmissions systems modified in any way, without having a EPA test to see if they are complient, are violating the law, although already doing so, but not being enforced.
The MRA is soon meeting with the EPA and is going to recommend changes to the suggested law. They (MRA) is asking for input from bike builders/modifiers as to how the bill should be changed.
'06 aren't the kiss of death, they are just the year manufactures have started to build bikes to the new EPA regs.
If Big Dog's engines have met and passed the EPA regs, then you're in the clear, as long as nothing is done to the emmissions systems.
Interestingly the emmissions system is considered modified if you add any of the following: Wider tire; Different gearing; Different trans; basically anything that would make the bike perform differently from how it came stock.
At least that's how I've read the bill to be. It's really still just a suggested bill, so all this could and should change before becoming law.
darrell
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Yes some models have them but not all...thus Ironrdr comments have merit.berserker said:
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True. Sporters and touring bikes got them, big sellers. I am not sure if any other models have them.bedemonster said:
But I was refferring to Repomans post that "The 06 law has no emissions effects on any hds purchased." Which is not true. They have a cats on some models, in an effort to bring down average.
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I was a bit dramatic. But for myself I will probably stay away from 06 and newer. Then again I am not the kind to trade a bike in every few years either. At thinking about for my next bike getting a high mileage bike and going reduilding it the way I want. But thats a couple years down the road.Ironrdr said:
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Like I've said it will be awhile before I can afford or want new bike. Now I am happy with what I got and maintaining it. But I know technology changes. Someday I will want something new. But at the pace HD advances in technology, should know what regualtions will be. Hopefully still have some oil left by then
Federal emissions standards started in 1968. Some cars had spark delay switches and/or smog pumps. CA started in early 60s, 63 0r 64 I believe. State testing of emissions began in the '70s in some states. Don't think all states are required to rest for emissions as of yet, though most do.swmnkdinthervr said:
Ed
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Forgive the slip...the first real attempts to control emission through ECM's and assorted plumbing and EGR valves were implemented then...my old '68 Chevy P/U had smog control: a PCV valve...in Denver they test all cars/trucks (gas and now diesel) and have a standard for all, in the DC (Va) area the cut-off is 30 years...it may differ in Md.Z16Monte said:
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Emmissions,too
Hi!
It seems the "emissions question" thread was hijacked and turned into a "I hate California thread", so I took the liberty of continuing the topic here.
As far as I understand it, it has been illegal to modify anything that would change the emissions behavior of your bike since the Clean Air Act was instated. That would include pretty much anything we like doing including changing the pipes, air cleaner, jetting etc, etc. Even mods without rejetting that wouldn´t really change the gaseous emissions are illegal because of the change in noise emissions. This has not changed with the new regulations.
What has changed, as has been stated before, are the emissions limits.
What will most likely change, and it´s anyones guess how this will come about, is that enforcement will be taken seriously in the future. The noise issue hasn´t helped in keeping the topic on the backburner either.
The shops will do anything they think is commercially viable. If they are in an area where enforcement is lax and chances of being caught and fined are low, they will continue to modify. Once they are hit with $10 000 fines a couple of times for $300 mods, they will surely reconsider.
Here in Germany, only TÜV (government agency in charge of biannual vehicle inspections) approved modifications are legal. That means anything you add to your bike has to have a certificate of compliance and the modification must then be inspected by a TÜV-inspector. It is then noted in your vehicle´s registration so that LEOs can verify the legality of your bike´s components should they stop you for whatever reason. It goes without saying, that compliant add-ons mean emissions and noise compliant- how does 80dB sound? (Like $hit, of course).
Now, a lot of modifications such as cams and rejetting etc, are not obvious and can´t be verified at a roadside inpection, but they will show when emissions are tested. Germany will start testing motorcycle emissions biannually with the regular TÜV-inspection as of 2006. ^rolleyez^
Nobody knows how things will play out, but people are tense. I know that this has no immediate relevance for riders in the US, but I think it may be interesting to see how things work out elsewhere. I will post as soon as the first reports come in. In any case, I think it would be wise to keep the stock exhaust around, much like folks here in Deutschland do...
I have one question for the legal pros here on the forum:
I read that the new EPA regs apply to motorcycles built for the model year 2006 and later. Now the regs pertaining to custom / exempt / homebuilt bikes apply to bikes built in 2006 or later. My 2006 Street Bob was built and registered in 2005. Do the new regs apply to my bike? Would it not be unfair (illegal, nay unconstitutional!) to treat a custom built and registered on December 31st as a 2005 in repect to EPA regs and a Harley built and registered in 2005 as a 2006 just because of the model year nomenclature?? :huh:
Just wondering, cause I bought the Street Bob to be ridden in the US so I could ride a bike with decent sound and performance at least now and then.
:brows:
Ride safe or sweet dreams of spring
Sponk
Hi!
It seems the "emissions question" thread was hijacked and turned into a "I hate California thread", so I took the liberty of continuing the topic here.
As far as I understand it, it has been illegal to modify anything that would change the emissions behavior of your bike since the Clean Air Act was instated. That would include pretty much anything we like doing including changing the pipes, air cleaner, jetting etc, etc. Even mods without rejetting that wouldn´t really change the gaseous emissions are illegal because of the change in noise emissions. This has not changed with the new regulations.
What has changed, as has been stated before, are the emissions limits.
What will most likely change, and it´s anyones guess how this will come about, is that enforcement will be taken seriously in the future. The noise issue hasn´t helped in keeping the topic on the backburner either.
The shops will do anything they think is commercially viable. If they are in an area where enforcement is lax and chances of being caught and fined are low, they will continue to modify. Once they are hit with $10 000 fines a couple of times for $300 mods, they will surely reconsider.
Here in Germany, only TÜV (government agency in charge of biannual vehicle inspections) approved modifications are legal. That means anything you add to your bike has to have a certificate of compliance and the modification must then be inspected by a TÜV-inspector. It is then noted in your vehicle´s registration so that LEOs can verify the legality of your bike´s components should they stop you for whatever reason. It goes without saying, that compliant add-ons mean emissions and noise compliant- how does 80dB sound? (Like $hit, of course).
Now, a lot of modifications such as cams and rejetting etc, are not obvious and can´t be verified at a roadside inpection, but they will show when emissions are tested. Germany will start testing motorcycle emissions biannually with the regular TÜV-inspection as of 2006. ^rolleyez^
Nobody knows how things will play out, but people are tense. I know that this has no immediate relevance for riders in the US, but I think it may be interesting to see how things work out elsewhere. I will post as soon as the first reports come in. In any case, I think it would be wise to keep the stock exhaust around, much like folks here in Deutschland do...
I have one question for the legal pros here on the forum:
I read that the new EPA regs apply to motorcycles built for the model year 2006 and later. Now the regs pertaining to custom / exempt / homebuilt bikes apply to bikes built in 2006 or later. My 2006 Street Bob was built and registered in 2005. Do the new regs apply to my bike? Would it not be unfair (illegal, nay unconstitutional!) to treat a custom built and registered on December 31st as a 2005 in repect to EPA regs and a Harley built and registered in 2005 as a 2006 just because of the model year nomenclature?? :huh:
Just wondering, cause I bought the Street Bob to be ridden in the US so I could ride a bike with decent sound and performance at least now and then.
:brows:
Ride safe or sweet dreams of spring
Sponk
Mine's an 06 1200 C and I've done the rejetting, SE AC, and SEII slip-ons myself (the dealer would have done it if I signed a statement certifying it as for off-road use only, and I didn't want to leave the evidence, so to speak). This is a California bike, so both CARB and EPA regs apply. I haven't heard of any actual enforcement, but I'm adding nipples to the back plate to handle the evap emissions system which I left on the bike, and I'm saving the original parts just in case. If I HAD to bet, I'd bet on needing them at some point for some kind of required inspection for renewing the license and getting the sticker every so often. Thing is, when they get around to it I wouldn't bet on 2006 as the limit going back; not for the CARB anyway ....
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The one exempt Non-EPA certified bike means just that . Any kit bike or home built bike that does not meet the 06 rules will be your once in a lifetime exemption . BUT any bike with a pre 06 frame will not have this rule. Just look at the sales going on right now .. engines are down because they dont meet 06 Regs ... and Frames are up because builders are scapping them up . As they will be registered as 05 bikes by frame vin #
S&S is now touting their new 06 engines and guess what their all EPA/carb certified ..So if u use all EPA certified componants then u can build as many bikes as u care too.
Bottom line is the MoCo and the larger aftermarket companies make a killing as u are dependant on them for componants.
S&S is now touting their new 06 engines and guess what their all EPA/carb certified ..So if u use all EPA certified componants then u can build as many bikes as u care too.
Bottom line is the MoCo and the larger aftermarket companies make a killing as u are dependant on them for componants.
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