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Discussion Starter #1
Have to ask a stupid question, gettting confused with all this, I have a 05 Fatboy, with Stage 1, and SE II slip ons, over winter going to put on
V&H Big Shots Stag. Can I just go get a DYNO Tune and be done, I am not planning on doing any other stuff....I really don't want to mess with PowerCommander..etc....I am a idiot with this, and want the bike right..
Or....because of stage 1, can I do nothing, from reading all posts, I am probably running lean, and with new pipes, maybe lean er, would the dyno test at the HD shop tell me this??
Thanks....
 

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XLIII
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No adjustments can be made without something like the SERT or PC.
It's the tool that they use to tune on the dyno.
And yes, a dyno run with an AFR probe will tell you, but it will not let you change anything...
Um, I assume your bike is injected? :D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, injected.....with the dyno tune, they use something like sert??
I guess are you PAYING for the expertice, dyno and something else, VS you buying and doing it yourself?
 

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Markfatboy05 said:
Yes, injected.....with the dyno tune, they use something like sert??
I guess are you PAYING for the expertice, dyno and something else, VS you buying and doing it yourself?
The SERT or PCIIIusb allows adjustment of fuel and ignition timing. The SERT allows more access to various functions and adjustments in the ECU.

The SERT on sale can be found in the $350-$400 and does not have any extra electronic hardware hanging on the bike. The PCIIIusb is an extra box that has to be connected in. You need a computer and preferrably a notebook computer at that. Finding a real good tuner is the key to all of this. Either method can yield a good tune, the SERT allows more things to be adjusted. Dyno time can run $35-$50/hr if you have your own tuner. Generally, dyno time and a tuner run $100/hr and up. Tuners that know what they are doing are quite efficient because of experience and can get the job done relatively quickly, depending on what the issues are and how much time they spend getting the last hp out. i.e. a 95% tune vs. a 98% tune vs. a 99% tune vs. a 100% max effort tried everything tune.

One last comment, the SERT allows Data Logging that is extremely valuable to seeing what the motor is doing on the dyno or the street if you pack the computer along for the ride. Check out the sticky thread on everything you ewanted to know about the SERT. It's a good introductory tutorial by springer. http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60576

Hope that helps you understand the situation a little more.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So let me ask this, if I have the Stage 1 already, and am going to change the SE II slip ons for the V & H big shots, I can pay the 100/hr, what ever, and the guy knows what he is doing:)crying: , I should be good, the advantage to the sert, etc,,,,is you can personally tweek it when you want, but like I said, the above is all I am planning on doing, so paying this dyno guy, I should be good..
 

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Markfatboy05 said:
So let me ask this, if I have the Stage 1 already, and am going to change the SE II slip ons for the V & H big shots, I can pay the 100/hr, what ever, and the guy knows what he is doing:)crying: , I should be good, the advantage to the sert, etc,,,,is you can personally tweek it when you want, but like I said, the above is all I am planning on doing, so paying this dyno guy, I should be good..
I am not an expert on this subject, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night......
The way I understand it is if you have the stage 1 reflash already, you should be ok (close) already and you should be able to switch your pipes without anything else being done.
If you want to "dial it in", you need to purchase a SERT or PCIIIusb and then dyno time/tuner.

YB
 

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Markfatboy05 said:
So let me ask this, if I have the Stage 1 already, and am going to change the SE II slip ons for the V & H big shots, I can pay the 100/hr, what ever, and the guy knows what he is doing:)crying: , I should be good, the advantage to the sert, etc,,,,is you can personally tweek it when you want, but like I said, the above is all I am planning on doing, so paying this dyno guy, I should be good..
Did you read Springer's tutorial I gave you the link to? The SERT is more than you need for the change you want to do BUT I originally thought the same as you, no engine mod's. Well, look what happened to me and my motor!

Yes, you can "tweak" things with either the SERT or PCIIIusb but there is a BIG caveat........
It's not just something you go in and "tweak" without understanding the implications or without air fuel ratio feedback on the changes. You can easily get on the wrong side of good AFR. The SE flashes are inherently lean.

A good tune, done correctly, meaning fuel and spark are adjusted, gets you the most out of your scooter.

By the way, and I realize this is a sensitive subject and sometimes emotional for others, you do know the V&H BSS's are not known for their great performance, right? I don't know how concerned you are about this aspect of it. The SEII's with stock primary tubes are better but if you are going for looks at the sacrifice of actual performance, then so be it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ahh....I did not know that, I read they have the crossover chamber,,etc..etc...thought it would give a little perf boost. Thanks for the info....I did see the sert tutorial, and I DO NOT want to get into that, to much for me to handle...my header pipes right now are blue, and were the SE II 's connect, a slight yellow....dealer say this is NORMAL.....
 

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SEDELUXE is correct, a DFO is a good option for you. I ran a Techlusion TFI module before my 95" build and it worked well with my pipe changes. It cost something over $200 and then the install and tune. Probably a better solution for you at this point. The DFO intercepts the signal to the injectors and adds more fuel in certain demand schemes depending on how it is setup. This is an example..........
http://www.techlusion.com/motorcycle

Yeah, you should probably research more into pipes before you make your final decision. I'm not trying to talk you out of the V&H's, just trying to make you aware, that's all. Actually, a real good performer is the stock primary tubes and Cycle Shack slip on's. I like the sound of the CS's, they ARE bold!

Header pipes go blue easily when covered by heat shields because of the heat build up and the fact that H-D's ECU maps are lean.
 

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Markfatboy05 said:
How would you rate the sound, performance, and quality of the Cylce Shack slips vs the SE II's
Since we've switched topics, this should probably be over in the Exhaust forum but here's the answers......

I had the SEII's, didn't like them after a while. Hated the chirp/whistle they had. I switched to Python3's which were very loud but felt they were sacrificing some low end torque. A friend had put on the Cycle Shack's and his were not quite as loud as the Python's but definitely were better quality of sound than the SEII's, imo. Build quality on Cycle Shacks are there with the best.

Here's another option, that is the loudest street 2-2's I've ever heard but they make great power, especially when more motor upgrades are done. A friend has them on his scoot and they are awesome sounding and make great dyno numbers with his build. Look at the Pro Streets in this link.........
http://www.bassanieast.com/softails.htm

Keep looking and listening to different pipes and researching performance. There are a LOT of options ou there!! You'll eventually find the right balance for yourself and it may end up being back to the V&H BSS's! Only you can make the decision on what the right balance is between aesthetics and performance.
 

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B-Rad, BFMC 104
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Reading this post helps me remember how much a noob I am as well with my PCIII....

So, running the Stage1, knowing it's on the lean side, would it not make sense to just add 10 or so, to all cells in the PC???
Thus basically taking the Stage1 tune and richening it up 10%???
instead of trying to tweak the different throttle and rpm arrays.

Maybe sounds stupid, but if compensating for a lean stage1, seems to make sense to me..:whistle:
 

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RideMyWideGlide said:
Reading this post helps me remember how much a noob I am as well with my PCIII....

So, running the Stage1, knowing it's on the lean side, would it not make sense to just add 10 or so, to all cells in the PC???
Thus basically taking the Stage1 tune and richening it up 10%???
instead of trying to tweak the different throttle and rpm arrays.

Maybe sounds stupid, but if compensating for a lean stage1, seems to make sense to me..:whistle:
Howdy RMWG,
You can certainly do what you suggest but again, it's a pure guess and not really addressing the issue correctly. Either get a AFR gauge / O2 sensor on the motor or go to a dyno with a AFR sniffer and get'er done right. Either way costs time and money and there are no real shortcuts to getting it done correctly.
 

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B-Rad, BFMC 104
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Yeah, I've just been waiting until I get a SERT... It's running good now, and I'm reasonably confident that I'm not lean anymore, so I'll get it tuned when I get the race tuner. Have several cold months ahead to get things in line for summer..:crying:
 

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RideMyWideGlide said:
Yeah, I've just been waiting until I get a SERT... It's running good now, and I'm reasonably confident that I'm not lean anymore, so I'll get it tuned when I get the race tuner. Have several cold months ahead to get things in line for summer..:crying:
Yep! riding season is pretty much over here too but I still have a dyno appointment today with Otto doing the tuning. Last week we changed the cam timing a bit, added different ratio roller rockers and added the reworked throttle body and intake manifold. Just trying to get it closer to being right before I put the bike up for the winter so when spring rolls around, it's ready to rock!
 

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Totenkopf said:
Yep! riding season is pretty much over here too but I still have a dyno appointment today with Otto doing the tuning. Last week we changed the cam timing a bit, added different ratio roller rockers and added the reworked throttle body and intake manifold. Just trying to get it closer to being right before I put the bike up for the winter so when spring rolls around, it's ready to rock!
You will be sharing the dyno sheet with us?? I have been following the other thread with anticipation.

YB
 

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efi blues

you can take your bike to a tuning shop get a run to check then you will know for surewhat you have and if you will need tuning if you do then you can dicide sert or pc 111
 

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I've read the entire SERT manual (pdf), and wonder if it is really feasable to hook a laptop up in the saddlebag and run data mode to adjust AFR and Spark Advance settings? By seeing the examples of the graphs I would think you could get it close, if you interpreted the graphs correctly.
But all thru the manual, I kept getting the nagging question....why not let an O2 sensor figure it all out??? Or at least tell me what is happening on the exhaust side and then I'll make the adjustments.
Then I go back and look at S&S VFI offering. The price of $800 is a real bummer, but maybe considering a SERT and 2 dyno sessions (maybe the tech gets it perfect), then this really isn't that bad of a deal.

Anybody seen or used the S&S?
 

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Most feedback or closed loop EFI ECM's still require their map tables to be refined in the A/F and Spark.

You're right, a good tuning tech will get the ECU maps tweaked out to where the ECU won't need to compensate much in the way of A/F BLMs or spark retard.

I recommend going a step further and use a 5 gas analyzer just to make sure you have a quality tune and to ensure the bike is still EPA compliant with emissions.

-2$en#e-
 
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