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Bowhntr
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I will be putting a set of V&H BR on the new duece next week. The Dealer has advised me that he can either do the download (endorsed by HD) or install the powercommander. He said that the download should be more than sufficient, provided I do not plan on any other major engine modifications, which I do not. My primary objective in getting the pipes is style and sound.

Is the download the way to go in my case? I'm inclined to trust the dealer on this one, as he could make more money from me if I elected to go with the powercommander.

Thanks,

BTW - Still trying to resize the damn pictures so I can post them :(
 

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The problem with the download is that it will still be EPA compliant--menaing very lean. The engine will not be at optimum power (I know you indicated that power was not you goal but...), and will run much hotter than it should (extra wear, heat on you etc).

With just the PC, you will not get the extra RPM to redline, but you will get a better, cooler running bike--and flexibility for upgrade in the future.

As a note, if you JUST do the pipes and not the cleaner, you should not "have to" do the downlaod. Of course, the engine will run as factory new---down on power and running hot due to the lean condition.

Spring for the PC IMO, or SERT if applicable. Download is extra $$$ to the Company with minimal results
 

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Bowhntr
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282 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
McClendons said:
The problem with the download is that it will still be EPA compliant--menaing very lean. The engine will not be at optimum power (I know you indicated that power was not you goal but...), and will run much hotter than it should (extra wear, heat on you etc).

With just the PC, you will not get the extra RPM to redline, but you will get a better, cooler running bike--and flexibility for upgrade in the future.

As a note, if you JUST do the pipes and not the cleaner, you should not "have to" do the downlaod. Of course, the engine will run as factory new---down on power and running hot due to the lean condition.

Spring for the PC IMO, or SERT if applicable. Download is extra $$$ to the Company with minimal results
I've gotten a couple more opinions on this and I think I'm going w/ the powercommander. Majority rules....Thanks.
 

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McClendons said:
The problem with the download is that it will still be EPA compliant--menaing very lean. The engine will not be at optimum power (I know you indicated that power was not you goal but...), and will run much hotter than it should (extra wear, heat on you etc).

With just the PC, you will not get the extra RPM to redline, but you will get a better, cooler running bike--and flexibility for upgrade in the future.

As a note, if you JUST do the pipes and not the cleaner, you should not "have to" do the downlaod. Of course, the engine will run as factory new---down on power and running hot due to the lean condition.

Spring for the PC IMO, or SERT if applicable. Download is extra $$$ to the Company with minimal results
Okay--someone help me with this one. The prevailing wisdom around here seems to be that the Stage 1 download leaves the bike (particularly '06 models) running very lean. Though I've seen this repeated often, I've never seen any actual proof. Being concerned about this, I've had a couple of dyno tests with A/F readings done on my '06 FLSTI (Stage 1 download, S/E Intake and S/E Pro slip-ons). Typical runs average about 70 HP and a really nice, flat AFR line that touches 14.0 at low RPM's but stays around 13.0-13.2 through most of the rev range. Best I can tell, that's no where near a lean condition. The bike runs like a champ and gets 43-45 MPG. What's not to like?
 

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So true! My FLTRI ran much cooler after the download. But now I'm goint to new pipes and true duals so we will see if I get the popping on decel.
 

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Flash

My 05 Dyna with SEII slip-ons and SE AC shows now evidence of running lean with the download, either. I haven't dyno'd it to be sure, but the plugs look good, it warms up fast, doesn't get particularly hot and runs great with no flat spots. Maybe we just go lucky?!
 

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Incredible
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Reverendbiker said:
Okay--someone help me with this one. The prevailing wisdom around here seems to be that the Stage 1 download leaves the bike (particularly '06 models) running very lean. Though I've seen this repeated often, I've never seen any actual proof. Being concerned about this, I've had a couple of dyno tests with A/F readings done on my '06 FLSTI (Stage 1 download, S/E Intake and S/E Pro slip-ons). Typical runs average about 70 HP and a really nice, flat AFR line that touches 14.0 at low RPM's but stays around 13.0-13.2 through most of the rev range. Best I can tell, that's no where near a lean condition. The bike runs like a champ and gets 43-45 MPG. What's not to like?
You are probably closer than most because you are running Screamin Eagle parts which the downloads are developed for. Most people run V&H or etc. If you do that the downloads are not much help other than raising the rev limiter.
 

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however

Even though my bike runs great with the download, if I had it to do over I'd buy the PCIII. The reason - I could use it for future changes with just a one time investment.
 

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SE Torques and down load

Should I feel fairly confident that a download with my torques will be suffecient and no problems will occur such as bluing of the pipes and poping on decel. I plan on no other mods. Thanks Ken
 

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Yes

Yes, I would be confident that your bike will run fine with the download and the torques. My bike has the SE AC, SEII Pro slipons and the download. Runs great, no pipe discoloration.
 

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Catken

I agree with the runs OK. My 2001 stock Ultra discolored the head pipes though. Made worse when I went with aftermarket exhaust. Not teriible, but they did discolor. With the download, pipes and new air cleaner (I assume you are talking that as well, I blieve the download assumes it), your bike will run OK.

I know there is allot of talk about the stock download not being lean. All I know (did not dyno) is that the bike ran much better and much cooler once I added the PowerCommander. Glad I went that route.
 

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PC III the way too go!

I had the stage one flash, pipes, a/c done on my '04 DWG about a year ago and the bike ran better but I did notice it running lean. I installed the PowerCommander PC 3 USB a couple weeks ago and the bike runs a lot better. You can adjust the PC 3 with a laptop and you don't need to bring it in to the dealer for a dyno when you make engine modifications. You can just download the map for your setup and make any final adjustments if needed witht a laptop. Of course if you want optimum performance you can have it dyno'd. I recommend the PC3!
:chopper:
 

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dynarider04 said:
I had the stage one flash, pipes, a/c done on my '04 DWG about a year ago and the bike ran better but I did notice it running lean. I installed the PowerCommander PC 3 USB a couple weeks ago and the bike runs a lot better. You can adjust the PC 3 with a laptop and you don't need to bring it in to the dealer for a dyno when you make engine modifications. You can just download the map for your setup and make any final adjustments if needed witht a laptop. Of course if you want optimum performance you can have it dyno'd. I recommend the PC3!
:chopper:
Can you adjust the idle with a PC3?
 

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I have the harley download on my 06 ultra, but its the 95 inch dowload on the 88 inch motor. I couldn't ask for it to run any better, smooth good power and no popping on decel.
 

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I have a 06 fat boy with v&h 2-1 pipe with stage 1 download and screamin eagle air filter and I have the pc 111 it ran fine with the download but it runs better and cooler with the pc but I am glad I have the down load for insurance. It didnt happen to me but when we were about 150 miles from home a buddy of mine pc went out he also had the down load all he did was remove seat unplug pc and plug back into factory plug and we were on our way ,they are electronic and they do fail sometimes if he didnt have the download he would have been running very lean all the way home , blue pipes or worse hurt motor considering the price of pipes or motor 150.00 is cheap.
 

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Reverendbiker said:
Okay--someone help me with this one. The prevailing wisdom around here seems to be that the Stage 1 download leaves the bike (particularly '06 models) running very lean. Though I've seen this repeated often, I've never seen any actual proof. Being concerned about this, I've had a couple of dyno tests with A/F readings done on my '06 FLSTI (Stage 1 download, S/E Intake and S/E Pro slip-ons). Typical runs average about 70 HP and a really nice, flat AFR line that touches 14.0 at low RPM's but stays around 13.0-13.2 through most of the rev range. Best I can tell, that's no where near a lean condition. The bike runs like a champ and gets 43-45 MPG. What's not to like?
The AFR that you are referring to on your dyno printout pertains to wide open throttle operation. The EPA does not regulate this. The lean condition that everyone is telling you about happens at idle and cruise throttle positions. Most of the stage 1 or 2 flashes that I have seen produce AFR's in the 16:1 or 17:1 range at cruise conditions. This is much leaner then you want..........Bill
 

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nauipro said:
The AFR that you are referring to on your dyno printout pertains to wide open throttle operation. The EPA does not regulate this. The lean condition that everyone is telling you about happens at idle and cruise throttle positions. Most of the stage 1 or 2 flashes that I have seen produce AFR's in the 16:1 or 17:1 range at cruise conditions. This is much leaner then you want..........Bill
Thanks, Bill--
Finally, a good explanation for something I had suspected. I had a Powercommander and dissected one of the canned maps--in the mid-throttle positions the PC map was enriching the mix to the tune of 20-23%. Of course, that would also explain why my bike was getting 35 MPG with the Powercommander and 45 MPG stock. If I decide to go with the PC I'll take it back to my local tuner (excellent reputation) and have him do it right. I'm seriously considering the SERT, but have much more experience with the PC.
 

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I was told by my dealer that I had to have the Powercommander in order to do the stage 1 mod on my '05 Dyna (EFI). Is that not the case? I am currently running stock pipes, and just bought a set of V&H Short Shots - but they won't do a download (or so I'm led to believe) without the PC.

My problem is $$$ - at $80/hour labor, I'm looking at a $600 service bill - even if I put the pipes and breather on myself. That really cuts into my beer fund...

Hickory
 

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I didn't need the SERT or PowerCommander on my 04 WG to do the Stage 1. I added a PowerCommander about 2 months ago and I'm really happy with it. I'd say it's worth the extra $$ but nice to add it when you've got a little more saved up for the beer budget!

:cheers:
 

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I pull off my seat on my 06 Road King Classic and I don't understand where in the world you guys are putting the PCIII! When I road sport bikes we would put them under the passenger seat. WHERE DO THEY GO!? :unsure:
 
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