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I opened this thread on another forum and got some really surprising feedback. Some of it threatened to destroy my faith in human nature and common sense. So I thought I'd ask the more enlightened people on this forum.

Some time ago, I went to East Saginaw to visit a friend in the hospital there. Now, I usually avoid East Saginaw at all costs, but that's where he was in the hospital, so that's where I went. Didn't ride. There's just no way to secure the bike in the parking lot outside St. Mary's. A swarm of gang bangers would haul it away before I got inside. So I drove the truck. When I left the hospital, I realized that I'd be lucky to make it to the nearest gas station without running out, and as luck would have it, I ended up pumping gas in an even worse neighborhood. As I stood by the pump, a scruffy looking guy walked towards me and asked for some "pocket change". I told him I didn't have any. He move closer and continued to beg. Finally, he was withing maybe 4 feet of me on the other side of the gas hose and said, "How do you know that I won't cut you if you don't give me five bucks?" At that point, I backed away from the hose and pump and pulled back my coat revealing the 1911 Springfield in my belt. He split quick and the attendant thanked me over and over again when I went in to pay. Said the guy had been panhandling all day, chasing customers away. But when I mentioned it to a retired cop friend, he said he would have arrested me for brandishing.

From responses in the other forum, I learned that I should have verbally challenged the guy before he got as close to me as he did. Something like: "Don't come any closer to me!" And I should have filled up before entering no-man's-land. Others said they would have drawn the gun (he ran as soon as he saw it in my belt). Others agreed with my cop friend. I'm not sure what the law says about brandishing. Whadayathink?
 

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Finally
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I'm sure there are differing opinions. From what I read sounds like your LEO friend is right as far as most CC laws read. You should have warned him to stay away. If then you felt your life was threatened then take other measures depending on the circumstances. You are going to have to prove you felt your life was at risk. Atleast that is the way it is in most areas.

Guess I missed the part about getting cut...Nevermind you did well in my opinion...
 

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you were assaulted the moment he threatened you with even the mention of cutting you with a knife
you were in fear for your life

that was not brandishing
that being said, the class I took for concealed carry said if you draw your weapon, you should call the police, otherwise the person who ran away can say YOU were the threatening one

brandishing, the way it was explained in our course, would be if you had pulled your weapon when you saw the person in the parking lot, or showed it to someone as you or they drove by

and where would the LEO have been had this person drawn the knife?I'm guessing not standing next to you
 

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FOG
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While you might have been subject to arrest for a CHL violation (sounds to me like you were threatened), I don't personally know an officer who would have made the arrest much less a prosecutor who would think of prosecuting it. Where I came from, an officer would have said, "nice job."

Oh yeah....you should have gotten gas earlier. ;)
 

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killer sperm
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Morally you handled the situation just fine,the guy threatened to assult you with a deadly weapon. Leagally? I dunno. Is it brandishing when you are afraid for your life?
 

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Be sure to check the law in Michigan to ensure what brandishing is truly defined as for the future. But in my opinion the word is generally defined with the idea that it is done as an unprovoked threat.

You were provoked with a verbal threat of violence in a bodily and potentially life threatening way.

How could your response be wrong regardless of how some LEO "might" interpret it? In fact, that's the whole reason law abiding citizens take up arms while in the public.

Often on firearms forums I read that after such an event you should call it in just in case the scumbag does and blames you first. But that's not as likely with this loser and you having a witness to the whole thing.

I'm not trying to be gung ho or melodramatic but I'd say good call and well done!
 

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vindex1963 said:
I think you acted accordingly given the situation.


@gree: The whole purpose of a carry permit is to have it available when you feel your life is threatened. It seems to me that's what you did.

Of course, I have the pleasure of living in Indiana where we have no obligation for "concealed."
 

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You legally carry a gun, showed restraint while this guy begged you and when he threatened you, you showed him what's under your shirt. I guess one additional thing you might have done is tell the guy you were armed first. Or, tell him how silly he is for bringing a knife to start a gun fight.

Tell your cop friend to shove it and then go get a beer together and forget it.
 

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EvilMonger
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trooper113 said:
While you might have been subject to arrest for a CHL violation (sounds to me like you were threatened), I don't personally know an officer who would have made the arrest much less a prosecutor who would think of prosecuting it. Where I came from, an officer would have said, "nice job."

Oh yeah....you should have gotten gas earlier. ;)
Here in Mass I would lose my permit and probably be charged. I generally carry pepper spray in addition to my CCW piece. If then guy advancing doesn't stop after I show the pepper spray I would spray first. If he continues to advance after being sprayed I would defend myself if there were no other options. If he showed a weapon all bets are off in the beginning.

That being said I think you did well and that is how it should be. Someone threatens, you show you are ready to handle the situation. He goes on to hassle/rob somebody else.
 

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I can't speak about Michigan but in Indiana, you are perfectly justified. I do have experience in this area and you actually acted with restraint. Here, you would have had to pull the pistol and point it at the mope w/o any prior action on his part to be charged with any crime. IMHO you were justified if you had screwed your pistol in his ear when he threatened to cut you.

The only thing I would say is that you should have reported the crime because this dirty bastard may get an unarmed woman next time or something.
 

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Fourcats said:
You should have aimed the fuel nozzle at him..."LEAVE fstick".
yep, spray him with gas and brandish a lighter. thats legal. here in redneck land, its easy, just tell him if he dont back off, its two to the heart and one to the head. the message is clear and you didnt show you were carrying heat.
 

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trooper113 said:
While you might have been subject to arrest for a CHL violation (sounds to me like you were threatened), I don't personally know an officer who would have made the arrest much less a prosecutor who would think of prosecuting it. Where I came from, an officer would have said, "nice job."

Oh yeah....you should have gotten gas earlier. ;)
My experence with LEOs is that they don't think much of non LEOs packing. In small town redneck country you might get an attaboy, but most areas that I have ever been, the cops think that it is thier job and anyone else is is a wannabe. They don't like competition. That is why they would arrest you for brandishing. As far as they are concerned, that is one more gun off the streets.
 

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Well done... You were threatened and you responded. But like somone else said, you should have called the cops right then and there just to CYA.

But an alternative could have been "How long do you think you'd burn if I turn this hose on you and strike a match?" :huh:
 

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You must hAVE BEEN a NY or MASS LEO!

trooper113 said:
While you might have been subject to arrest for a CHL violation (sounds to me like you were threatened), I don't personally know an officer who would have made the arrest much less a prosecutor who would think of prosecuting it. Where I came from, an officer would have said, "nice job."

Oh yeah....you should have gotten gas earlier. ;)
Just joking!
 

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roofeditor said:
Just joking!
I guess I don't follow...the officer attitude I described would be common in flyover country....aka small town redneck country according to SoCal Paul.
 

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route66paul said:
They don't like competition. That is why they would arrest you for brandishing. As far as they are concerned, that is one more gun off the streets.
Maybe some but we had a neighborhood block party and had the police and firemen here for the kids to talk to. I told an officer I have a conceal carry permit what do you think. He told me it makes his job easier because by the time he gets to the scene the problem has been taken care of. He also said he can't be everywhere and it's up to me to protect myself and my family. He didn't ask if I was carrying at that moment. He really seemed at ease with it. Maybe Arizona is different.
 

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route66paul said:
My experence with LEOs is that they don't think much of non LEOs packing. In small town redneck country you might get an attaboy, but most areas that I have ever been, the cops think that it is thier job and anyone else is is a wannabe. They don't like competition. That is why they would arrest you for brandishing. As far as they are concerned, that is one more gun off the streets.
roust66paul, from reading several of your posts it sounds like you have had a lot of bad experiences with cops over the years. I am not going to judge you or speculate as to why.

I would have absolutely no problem with what the original poster did, and I can't think of anybody else that I work with that would. The County Attorney in these parts wouldn't have a problem with it either. This is an excellent example of what the CCW laws were put into affect for. I would go as far to say that even if you broke leather, and held the gun at your side in a low ready position, you still would not run into trouble here. I stress the "here" part because I am not familiar with the laws/politics in your specific area. What I can tell you is that a person who is even moderately skilled with a knife can do serious damage before most people can even start to react (there are many documented incidents of this, just google "edged weapon twenty one foot rule").

I don't think you did anything wrong. Brandishing? No way, no how, not here anyway. Glad you kept yourself safe.
 
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