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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Okay, first time input from me. Here goes.
First off, all you people here certainly have a wealth of knowledge.
That's what I'm looking for!
Outstanding.
What I have: (assemblied & in completed bike).
'88 stock crankcase. (Bottom breather). This is only part recycled, rest of stuff below is new. At least this is what I was told by the guy I bought this monster from. As it stands now there is less than 5 miles on this horse.
JIMS crankshaft, 3.625Bx4.500S. 93"
(I know what you're thinking, shovel crank in an evo body).
Wiseco pistons 10:1 c.r.
SS cylinders.
HD heads.
Manley valve train.
SS tappets, pushrods, adjustable.
Andrews ev27 cam.
Stock am cam cover.
JIMS hiflo oil pump.
Keihin stock 40mm carb. 48/185 jets.
Kuryakn Hypercharger.
Spyke comp. rels.
BDL primary belt drive.
Samson long shots 2-1/4" pipes.

Problems:
Engine starts up like a PBR out of the gate! Most willing.
Oil pressure starts out @ 50-60# cold. Okay so far.
Spits some oil out of the breather, then quits.
As the engine warms up, oil pressure starts dropping, also normal, so far.
Now, as it starts getting hotter, the oil pressure drops to <2#. No pressure @ revving.
Here's where it starts getting leaking, or blow by past the crankshaft oil seal. Drooling into the primary case. New seal installed. I was informed that this could be from the left pressed in bearing race becoming loose in the crank house, and oil passing here. Is this true, or worst case scenario?
Also it drips past the right most rear rocker cover bolt. I have the pressure gauge mounted here. O ring I presume.
I know I have wet sumping going on, as half my oil has drained into the case since the last time I checked the oil tank.
I figure I'll have to check the return spring/ball seat in the pump. Maybe the gasket needs replacing. Bum seal between gears.
Is it because of excess oil in the crankcase it's getting this leaking, even though it doesn't leak @ start up?
Could it be compression blow by since the rings are not seated yet?
I have an oil cooler on it. Could this be robbing the oil pressure? It is higher then the oil tank at top.
Do I have to modify the oil breather valve? Maybe it is slightly out of time? off set woodruff key required? Oil trap port in crankcase needs to be opened up?
Is a modification required to the cam cover? If so, what/how. (No I'm not racing this animal).
Also, as it runs, the front cylinder nicely poppity-pops along, but the rear cylinder has reversion, sucking my hand against the pipe as it lopes. Pipes are baffled down to 1.5.
Does the exhaust lifter need to be bled out and repumped back up?
This is about all I can think of that it is doing.
Other then whats listed I'm having a great day!
Hopefully so are all you people that cruise this site.
Ride on Brous and Sisses.
Keep it between the ditches.
 

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when i started to read this i thought maybe the breather was broke or mistimed, then you said something about the breather. i had a breather break on my 85 once and if i ran it above 60 mph the oil would come out the breather instead of being scavenged in the lower end.if i ran it at 45 mph no oil would blow out. i don't think the motor is breathing properly if it's coming out all over.
 

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sounds like a breather gear problem timing or broke and or a possible oil pump key sheared or missing these these are just a few things it could be
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
93" Incontinance

Yep! seems I'm definitely going to have to go into the cam chest and poke around in there. Looks like I'll have to take a look at the oil pump, too. What do you guys think about the rear cylinder exh. pipe vacuum? Lifter too high? Pushrod? What's your opinion about a stronger return spring in the pump to stop the sumping? Or just stretch it out some like another guy had done in here?
Up here in the great white northeast we haven't seen any temps above mid twentys in 2 weeks. Gets a bit cool working in an unheated garage. As I'm writing this, we've got 6" of snow in the last 2-1/2 hours. Damn!
Warmer weather will be more conductive to my exploratory examinations.
I'll post my findings.
Here's what my sled looks like.
Absolutely homegrown.
Frankensteinien?
The dual lanterns are for barhoppen over back roads at nite.
Ever see a deer in the middle of the road @ 80.
It'll stripe your seat.
Thanks & later.
 

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Nice looking ride! We got some snow here the other day, but the roads are clear already, so I was able to ride to work this morning. It was pretty warm, too.... 31 deg. and sunny!! The bike runs GREAT in this cold weather! I just wish they'd get the rest of that dam sand off the road, though.

Yeah, I'd check out the breather gear. Sounds like that could be the problem with the oil system. And yes, it could also be the crank bearing, but I'd check the breather gear first.

Check your external oil lines and accessible passages for blockage. Blow air through them (low pressure) to clear them. The oil cooler shouldn't cause this, but you might have some air in the lines. Are you sure your gauge is accurate? Did you bleed it? I always leave the fitting slightly lose at the gauge when I first install it, letting some oil seep out while idling before tightening it. You should be getting anywhere from 30-60 psi cold at idle, although it can go close to zero psi when hot. Above idle and hot, it should be around 20-30 or so. Don't mess with the pump spring. It'll work fine as long as the rest of the system is good. The stock pump puts out plenty of pressure. Harleys need high volume, not high pressure.

Check your pushrod adjustment. Is it ticking a lot? Keep in mind that the EV27 will most likely tick anyway (front exhaust), even when adjusted properly. That's just the way they are... some tick and some don't. This usually depends on the gear lash, whether or not the original cam gear was used, or by the pushrod contacting the pushrod cover. Mine ticks like crazy, but since I know the adjustment it correct, I don't worry about it. It's a Harley... they are noisy engines... period. ;)

I'm curious... why did he install compression releases? They aren't required with only 10:1 CR. Just another thing to break.... One good thing is that since they are there, at least you can up the CR later if you want to.

The reversion in the pipes are common if you have small or no baffles. What did you mean by "baffled down to 1.5"? Drag-style pipes are notorious for this problem. The pipes are also too big (diameter). All Harley's run better with 1.75" pipes, no matter how large the displacement. It's all about keeping exhaust gas velocity as high as possible. Large diameter pipes will slow the gas pulses to the point of them being sucked back into the head (reversion) since the valve is still open during part of the intake stroke. Also, when the pulses exit the pipe, they tend to "reflect" off of the outside air, forcing them to go back up the pipe. Baffles prevent this. Torque cone's won't fix this, either, nor will washers on a bolt stuck in the ends. That trick works on the older Shovelheads, but not on EVOs or TCs. To fix this, you need smaller diameter pipes with tuned mufflers or you'll never be able to tune it correctly and it'll idle like crap. Also, what is your idle speed. Keep it above 1000 rpm. That will help smooth out the idle (after fixing the pipe problem).

Let us know how it works out. Good luck! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Wrestling w/ the Viking

Hey Todd, howyadoin!
I'm in the southern tier of NY. (mid-SW that is). We got dumped on yesterday. Beer in the garage frige. Plow on the tractor. Good to go!
Yeah. I built it from zero. Old school ambition, Think swap meet, (sorta), new school means. Alot found on eBay. I was collecting parts for almost 3 years. Combo of new & used. frame is new. Kraftech 4upx1.5outx38'. Engine I found from a guy in Minnesota. Built it & decided He had a need for more power. He went to a 127. Tranny new from Cal.: 6 speed. Sportster wheels.
That is the first place I'm going. To check the breather gear. Could very well be when I replaced the cam cover the key might have dropped out. Jeez, I hope not. Things could be majorly f****d up in there then. (Understatement).
I was thinking about putting the pressure gauge on the crankcase, anyway. Then I'll see if it needs bleeding.
I rechecked The line going to the filter from the pump, it appears I have the inlet going into the center and out the side. This should be the other way around. No bd. But I'm glad I found that info here on this site.
The pump is a JIMS Hiflow. Hopefully it should be in pristine order. (As Q says to 007). I'm going to pull it just to take a peak at it, anyway.
The engine is noisy, but with that cam it's gonna be. I did the stethoscope thing on the running/warmed engine. no noises out of the ordinary.
The front cylinder is running on the money. The rear cylinder is evidently out of syc. w/ the exh. valve. Closing late. At least enough to create a suction. Maybe it's not reversion. This is what makes me wonder about the lifter either being too pumped up or binding. Maybe the pushrod is over adjusted. But I've checked that about 6 times. It always turns freely w/ no up/down play. Cam on lobe bottom. Won't hurt to check it again!!
I put on the comp. rel. valves. Originally, when I first started it, it seemed that the starter had barely enough ass to turn it over. I figured it was because of the higher compression. After 5-6 times of starting it, the battery would crap. I have since went to an Odessey 680cca battery. This did the trick. Although below 50 degrees it still won't start. from what I've gathered, it's because of the 20w50 I have in it. Too thick. Use 10w40 in colder weather. I'll wait for higher temps. You're right though, it won't hurt it and it spins like a sewing machine on start up,when it's warm out.
From what I was reading on the reversion principles, it has to do with the sound waves doing a bounce back more than pressure, since sound travels faster than the hot breath of the beast. The cylinder needs a certain amount of back pressure to keep the exhaust flowing in the right direction. Hence, I baffled the pipes twice down. I used Samson baffles 2-1/4>1-3/4 then a-m baffles 1-3/4>1-1/2, The lesser slipped perfectly into the greater. Really reduced the noise yet is still letting it breathe freely. Once I actually start running the bike, if the second baffle is too much, I'll take it out. This horse still needs to be inspected and cleared by the DMV. And you probably know who does the final inspection. The same guys that check the truckers to see if they're overweight. And actually, I went with with the 2-1/4 Samsons because they have baritone when they sing!! +_ some HP I'm okay with.
Even with all this going on with this engine, after it warms up, it idles nicely at around 1000r's. That's where I set it. The choke works perfectly. When it's warming up, it sounds like a fueler waiting for the christmas tree to turn green. Gotta love it!!
All this stuff to do & mother nature wants to be beligerant.
Patience truly is a virtue.
Later.
 

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Sounds like that oil line problem might fix your low pressure and possibly the breather, too. Still a good idea to pull the cover and take a look see.

About the reversion... the "sound waves" are following the exhaust pulses, which are actually one in the same when going out the pipe. Yes, the pressure difference is what causes it to rebound. Also, a lot of cam overlap will increase the reversion effect, since the pulses are going back up the pipe and into the still open exhaust valve. This isn't necessarily a problem with the valve "hanging", but part of the design that must be compensated for by using an exhaust that will minimize the effect. When I have drag pipes on my bike, the rear pipe will actually suck my hand against it pretty hard, to the point of making a circular mark (hicky) on my palm. With the 2-1 system, this doesn't happen at all.

Let us know what you find out. Good luck! :)

PS... yeah, you guys usually get a lot more snow down there than we do in the northern Adirondacks, or even Buffalo for that matter. We used to have a camp in Rexville (southern Steuben County) for many years and I remember going there when the snow was 3 feet deep, and the ground was bare when we left Lockport! The snow helped a lot when deer and bear hunting, though. ;)

I'm going to be riding next weekend! It's supposed to get into the 50s!!!! I don't care if it's raining or not... at least it will be WARM!!!
 

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I would suggest to check the year of fabrication of the nose cone. There is a difference between the nosecones of '93 and later and the pre '93 engines. The difference is in the routing of the breather lines within the nosecone. Different nose cones aren't interchangable (excuses for my grammmatics, I'm from the country with wooden shoes, tulips and windmills:beer4u: ) In line of this you should also check if you are usinig the correct gasket. The difference is in a small hole on the site nearest to the breather valve.

Hope this helps.

"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it"
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Cam cover

Hey, thanks for the advice, Putje. Yes, I do have the correct nosecone & gasket. Apologys for not getting back sooner. Warmer wheather has pushed me outside. Spending more time working on the scooter and other honeydoos, less at this keyboard.
Anyway...
From what I've gathered I have to open up the breather intake port. The original crankcase was designed for an 80". The crank is 93", along with the rest of the uppers. Consequently, due to the increase in stroke more discharge area is required within the camchest for flow alotment. It also appears that I may have to remove the breather screen. (A high performance mod, {make sure your oil really stays clean when doing this}). HD had designed a oil flow restrictor in '92 to install in the inlet tube from the cam cover to the camchest. This is in the maintainance manual. Modification to the camchest breather port coincides with the return (down) stroke of the pistons and is opened accordingly with the rotation of the breather valve port opening. Purchase of an SS breather valve will give you full instructions for modus operandii. Don't forget the shim washer!! I've yet to inspect the oil pump running gear. That's next.
My life is multi-projected.
Busy-busy-busy!
Stay tuned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Engine debugged.

Looks like this portion has been fixxed. The dude I got this mill from didn't know what he was giving me, or he was plain lying through his teeth. :thumbsdn: Read: it wasn't a newly built engine. Let the buyer beware on eBay! Fortunately the bottom end is okay. Live and learn!
Anyway, the engine is an 88CI, 3-5/8 bore x 4-1/4 stroke. The jugs were .005 over spec. I had to rering the pistons, (.010 over rings), and replaced the head gaskets. There were no o-rings around the head alignment dowels. Replaced them. Problem solved. I entered a new thread under EVO discussions. Any help there would be appreciated. Adios amigos for here.:chopper:
 
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