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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was talking to the dealer today and he recommened this:

95" kit
ported heads
S&S 510g gear drive cam
parts, labor, dyno tune all for $2361

Said it would give 98hp/104tq

What are your thoughts on this build? This price? $2500 is my max budget on this. Is there anything better I could go with for this $$?

My bike
2005 FLHTCI
V&H true duals
Wild pig 1.75" slip ons
Arlen Ness Big Sucker
 

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bdog1234 said:
I was talking to the dealer today and he recommened this:

95" kit
ported heads
S&S 510g gear drive cam
parts, labor, dyno tune all for $2361

Said it would give 98hp/104tq

What are your thoughts on this build? This price? $2500 is my max budget on this. Is there anything better I could go with for this $$?

My bike
2005 FLHTCI
V&H true duals
Wild pig 1.75" slip ons
Arlen Ness Big Sucker
Who is porting the heads and what is their experience? Dewey's in New Mexico is so close and they are proven. I live in Canada and Dewey's is where my heads are going.
 

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Doofaluumpa
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188 Posts
bdog1234 said:
I was talking to the dealer today and he recommened this:

95" kit
ported heads
S&S 510g gear drive cam
parts, labor, dyno tune all for $2361

Said it would give 98hp/104tq

What are your thoughts on this build? This price? $2500 is my max budget on this. Is there anything better I could go with for this $$?

My bike
2005 FLHTCI
V&H true duals
Wild pig 1.75" slip ons
Arlen Ness Big Sucker
#1 Get your own cylinders bored and honed, that will save you some $. #2Are you going with the SERT or PCIII? Regardless of the price on either of these, choose the one your dealer is best at tuning. #3 Are the ported heads SE? If so, use your own. #4 Call Dewey, he gives ( I mean does) great headwork! Here's the link to my recent Dyno to help your decision. :clap:

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30102&d=1142117847
 

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(hp x 5252) / rpm = :)
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49 Posts
I was planning on the 510G as well (even to the point of ordering it for my build) and then decided to go with the 570G instead. Not a whole bunch of reasoning here other than I just didn't see the reason spending that much money on porting heads/bore and hone etc for a "mild cam"......and the 570G is for 10:1 CR and under so should be fine in hot weather and 89 octane gas if I get in a bind........

Then I added roller rockers to the bill.....then an oil cooler....am now even questioning my pipes....:hmmm:

I figure that all bleeding eventually stops....
 

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chieber00 said:
I was planning on the 510G as well (even to the point of ordering it for my build) and then decided to go with the 570G instead. Not a whole bunch of reasoning here other than I just didn't see the reason spending that much money on porting heads/bore and hone etc for a "mild cam"......and the 570G is for 10:1 CR and under so should be fine in hot weather and 89 octane gas if I get in a bind........

Then I added roller rockers to the bill.....then an oil cooler....am now even questioning my pipes....:hmmm:

I figure that all bleeding eventually stops....
:roflback: :roflback: :roflback: :roflback:
The bleeding NEVER STOPS!!! Trust me!!:roflback:

BDOG1234, You'll get alot of advice here on this and that alternative to your build and it's true, for the money you could get more but you got to look at alot of things. If you are comfortable with the dealer, it's a pretty reasonable price and a decent respectable and dependable build. You could spend a little less or you could get a little more for what you are spending but it ain't gonna be as easy as just calling the dealer and telling em to come pick up your bike and then having em deliver it all ready to go.
It's a trade off but I think you'll be happy with the build....
 

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Seasoned Prime Member
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446 Posts
bdog1234 said:
I was talking to the dealer today and he recommened this:

95" kit
ported heads
S&S 510g gear drive cam
parts, labor, dyno tune all for $2361

Said it would give 98hp/104tq

What are your thoughts on this build? This price? $2500 is my max budget on this. Is there anything better I could go with for this $$?

My bike
2005 FLHTCI
V&H true duals
Wild pig 1.75" slip ons
Arlen Ness Big Sucker
There's a lot of good advice on this and other (email me) sites on 95" builds. I've got right around $2500 in my build and there's a few things I've got that you can use your stock stuff (cam plate and oil pump and pipes) to name a few, and save yourself a few bucks more. Course I started mine in December and have been off work since January so I've had a lot of time to shop around for the best deals. I think you can put together a much better build for your money buy doing it yourself, if you can. All the info is right here for ya!!:dunno:
 

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Road Hawg
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146 Posts
bdog1234, is this a Harley dealer you are talking to? I have been talking to dealers in my area, and none of them even want to talk about anything but an all-harley build. Which dealer do you go to? BTW, I was quoted $2600 for a HD 95" stage 2 build from the dealer I bought my bike from, and I already have the AC.
 

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Doofaluumpa
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188 Posts
An all HD build from my dealer was $1899 with free winter storage. Needless to say, I didn't go that way, but the price was very reasonable.
 

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Addicted to American Iron
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460 Posts
You buy the parts and take them to the shop and it should be fairly straight forward for a basic build.

Port your heads: $300 BigBoyz
Bore and hone your cylinders: $50
Gaskets: $75
Pistons: SE 1550 flat tops $130
Cams: $250 (chain)
Quick install Push rods: $120
Baisely Spring: $12
Dyno tune: $125
New bearings: $ 60

total parts: $1122 + misc shipping

9 hours for top end @ $65 an hr (anymore and find a different shop)
 

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davemhughes said:
You buy the parts and take them to the shop and it should be fairly straight forward for a basic build.

Port your heads: $300 BigBoyz
Bore and hone your cylinders: $50
Gaskets: $75
Pistons: SE 1550 flat tops $130
Cams: $250 (chain)
Quick install Push rods: $120
Baisely Spring: $12
Dyno tune: $125
New bearings: $ 60

total parts: $1122 + misc shipping

9 hours for top end @ $65 an hr (anymore and find a different shop)
Dave, where can you get juggs done for $25 a hole? and a dyno w/custom map for $125, I'm going to your mechanic! Hmmmm, maybe not.....
You left out some stuff like 2 way S&H for heads plus CC and deck heads also, no need for adj pushrods, the stockers are fine. What about tensioner shoes, $70. Plus, he's gonna need some kind of tuning device that I assume the dealer is including since he's including dyno time in his quote. It's a few hun more than you indicate but you'd do it the way I did. Plus, really hard to find a shop you don't already have a relationship with that will work with YOUR parts without a extra charge. I know you know these things, not trying to start anything but everyone doesn't have the relationships you have and not everyone has access to a shop they feel they can trust....
Trying to give the guy info that'll work for him....
 

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Doofaluumpa
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When I told my shop I was going to have my cylinders bored and my heads ported, all they said was, "we'll call you when we get them off." It was no problem with them.:clap:
 

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HogJR said:
When I told my shop I was going to have my cylinders bored and my heads ported, all they said was, "we'll call you when we get them off." It was no problem with them.:clap:
That's rare unless you have an existing relationship, did they also let you carry in your cams, pistons, gaskets, gears, lifters, pushrods etc?
I really envy you JR. you are in the exact spot I was in back in early january, sitting on a new build that you've already seen an awesome dyno on but haven't been able to ride much yet! I've got 1500 on mine now so I am getting use to all that power after so many years of near stock bikes. But the thrill dude is still there, my favorite is the roll on from about 60 in 5th. It's like a thrill ride every time and I live in really rural area so there's plenty of places to do it every single time I ride! That 60 to a hundred or a hundred-ten is like a ride at the amusement park every time! But the first few times...:banana: :banana:
Sorry, bdog1234, didn't mean to hijack the thread, just think what you got to look forward to after your build!!


BTW JR, I went riding in the rain in the 30's I was jonseing to ride that thing so bad!!
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I asked the dealer some more questions and here are his answers. Let me know what you think.

Who is porting the heads? I hear that there can be a lot of differences
> in how well this is done and the results.
> we port the heads in house. derek or rick, carl's speed shop flows them
for us so we know how they work

I currently have a Arlen Ness Big sucker intake and V&H true duals.
> Will all of these things work well together?
> the air filter is ok, but the true duals are not as good as the stock
header system

What exactly am I getting as far as a tune? A canned download, or a
> dyno tune?
> there is no canned download with the race tuner it is all customized to
the bike

What are the expected HP/TQ numbers you quoted me again, I forgot. Also
> are these numbers in a useable rpm range? I want a broad torque curve.
> 100hp/107ftptq


What compression ratio / pistons?
> Is this new cylinders, or boring mine?
> > What about lifters?
> 10.5 to 1, new cylinders you can't bore stock cylinder the wall will be
to thin, your stock lifter are as good as it gets, unless you will be
turning it 8500rpm

Ever heard of this http://www.revperf.com/twin.aspx?action=perfKits 98"
> kit? What are your thoughts on substituting this for the 95" and doing
> everything else the same?
> revpref, is revtech products i will not install any revtech product and
stand behind it we have had to replace to much of it in the past

Finally If I am spending this much, is there anything else you would
> recommend while we are at it?
> a set of rush brand slip on mufflers, in all dyno run which run into the
hundreds the rush mufflers have a 5 horse advantage on al other brands
 

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Addicted to American Iron
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adlerx said:
Dave, where can you get juggs done for $25 a hole? and a dyno w/custom map for $125, I'm going to your mechanic! Hmmmm, maybe not.....
You left out some stuff like 2 way S&H for heads plus CC and deck heads also, no need for adj pushrods, the stockers are fine. What about tensioner shoes, $70. Plus, he's gonna need some kind of tuning device that I assume the dealer is including since he's including dyno time in his quote. It's a few hun more than you indicate but you'd do it the way I did. Plus, really hard to find a shop you don't already have a relationship with that will work with YOUR parts without a extra charge. I know you know these things, not trying to start anything but everyone doesn't have the relationships you have and not everyone has access to a shop they feel they can trust....
Trying to give the guy info that'll work for him....
Deweys Machine Junction City, KS (not associated with the other Dewey) (785) 762-4434 $50 bore and hone......everyone here uses him including the Harley shops. 75 y/o true craftsman.

Salina Harley less than 2 hr dyno time to create a custom map (785) 823-0161 ask for rick. As for a tuning device, since he mentioned a dyno tune.....I assumed he had one. But if he doesn't and thats the case then....flash....if he wants to go with basic low cost budget build.

I did mention misc shipping....just a part of doing business. Like the 98 kit with rollers I just bought from GMR, Shipping added 2-3% to the cost of this purchase. Worth it.

Well it would be a shame to put stock push rods back in.....might want different cams later. Why not make it easy to do right now.

Your right....I did forget tensioner shoes....next??

My point was do a cost / parts break down. Under stand what you are paying for and know if the cost is fair and where possible.....cut the dealer mark up out of the cost. If they will not use parts you bring them.....find another shop. Oh and the last thing is something to get comfortable with if you are going to modify your bike to actually make it run descent....."I am my own warranty". There is risk....trust me I know. Above all man...enjoy your bike it yours to do with as you see fit.
 

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bdog1234 said:
I asked the dealer some more questions and here are his answers. Let me know what you think.

Who is porting the heads? I hear that there can be a lot of differences
> in how well this is done and the results.
> we port the heads in house. derek or rick, carl's speed shop flows them
for us so we know how they work
Carl's speed shop is very well known and builds some awsome motors. Having one person port them and another "flow" them doesn't make a lot of sense, IMO.


bdog1234 said:
I currently have a Arlen Ness Big sucker intake and V&H true duals.
> Will all of these things work well together?
> the air filter is ok, but the true duals are not as good as the stock
header system
Most cross over or 2-1 systems are better performing pipes typically. To me there is more than just performance when building a bike or an engine. You have to like it, like the way it sounds and like the looks, unless performance is all that matters.


bdog1234 said:
What exactly am I getting as far as a tune? A canned download, or a
> dyno tune?
> there is no canned download with the race tuner it is all customized to
the bike
The SERT (race tuner) comes with canned maps. You can use them as base maps and then tune them to the bike. I tend to doubt they start off with a completely blank map.


bdog1234 said:
What are the expected HP/TQ numbers you quoted me again, I forgot. Also
> are these numbers in a usable rpm range? I want a broad torque curve.
> 100hp/107ftptq
That doesn't really answer your question, You mention a 510G cam in the first post and S&S recommends less than 9.7:1 CR with that cam, in the next question they say 10.5:1 CR :dunno:



bdog1234 said:
What compression ratio / pistons?
> Is this new cylinders, or boring mine?
> > What about lifters?
> 10.5 to 1, new cylinders you can't bore stock cylinder the wall will be
to thin, your stock lifter are as good as it gets, unless you will be
turning it 8500rpm
The 95" SE cylinders are the same exact castings just bored to a larger size. Boring the stock cylinders to 95" is time proven to work. The stock HD lifters work well. What pistons are they using?


bdog1234 said:
Ever heard of this http://www.revperf.com/twin.aspx?action=perfKits 98"
> kit? What are your thoughts on substituting this for the 95" and doing
> everything else the same?
> revpref, is revtech products i will not install any revtech product and
stand behind it we have had to replace to much of it in the past

Finally If I am spending this much, is there anything else you would
> recommend while we are at it?
> a set of rush brand slip on mufflers, in all dyno run which run into the
hundreds the rush mufflers have a 5 horse advantage on al other brands
They have never heard of Revperf and have mistaken it for Custom Chromes RevTech line of products. Dealers make 100% profit on all the hard parts, there is no profit in Boring cylinders or using someone else's products. This is why they typically sell the SE cylinders and heads and cams etc...
 

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Seasoned Prime Member
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446 Posts
YankeeBob said:
Find a new shop.
@gree:


I don't understand ' ya can't bore your existing cylinder, yada, yada, yada,' Was he talking about the 98" cylinders? Axtell makes a 97" steel sleeved, no bore the cases, cylinder. Ask him about that......I like the new shop or do it yourself build!!:dunno:
 

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Seasoned Prime Member
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446 Posts
My bro took his bike to the local dealer for a 95" build last fall. He was told that the build would be right around $2500-$2700. Today he paid the last of his $3900+ bill and bought the bike home. He still needs to get it tuned and dyno'd. Don't get me wrong. It's a nice build and it will run strong. HTCC heads and pistons, $1300+taxYou can get a real good set of ported heads and Wiseco's for less than $850. Harley pretty much sticks you with S.E. parts. Ain't nothing wrong with them but there is better for less money. Just my -2$en#e-

:duh?: :whistle:
 
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