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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hippo, Rem code 56? doh.......

Well, heres how I left the last thread:-

"Turns out that the positive cable from the battery that connects onto the top of the starter was pretty corroded, not making a good connection.
Tried to take the cable off, but its stuck solid! The nut, post and cable ends are corroded together.
Looks like the post might move 'with' the nut when trying to undo it which will damage things inside.
Gonna take off the solenoid end cover to gain access to this post from the inside and get a 'grip' of it, while trying to loosen the nut outside after plenty of WD40 tomorrow.

I've tightened this up for now, and oviously with movement and retightening, its made the connection better. Started an stopped over a dozen times and more, and guess what? NO TROUBLE CODES! or engine warning light flashing, ALL normal. "
___________________________


Anyway, tomorrow never came! I thought that it might be best left alone, incase something got broke with the starter side of things. Not broke, don't break it.
:rolleyes:

On my way home from work tonight, The engine light came on and stayed on. Rode the rest of the way home, turned the ign. off as usual.
Tried starting it again, difficult but it did. (cam sensor?).......

Later.......
Turned ign. on , pressed run and it lit up for energising etc, 4 seconds or so then off.....................then back on, staying on. 'Current trouble code'

Retrieved the codes with ign. came out with 56 and 42 'cam pos sensor' this time.

I've taken this out (cam sensor) to see if it was full of gunk or damaged in any way, no

Sprayed more wd40 onto the starter post, and it seemed to start ok????

Would this post's bad connection be giving me these codes or am I looking at the wrong thing? and its starting ok again by a fluke?

is something else starting to go wrong?

:confused:
 

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I don't work on HD's for a living, but I do on Mack trucks. And I'm the poor SOB that gets most of the wireing and computer work.
Now the first thing you need to do is check all the connections to see if there clean. Yours aren't so thats where your problem is, more than likely.
What you need is a multimeter to check voltage . Then you can check for a voltage drop at the connection to see if thats the problem or not.
Take the meter set it to dc volts, take one probe put it at one end of the wire in your case the battery. And the other probe at the other end, your starter post. If you have a half volt or more showing thats the drop in voltage in the wire or connection.
You can't have that much and have the computer stuff work, most of our tests call for less than 1/4 volt drop.
 

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You can't let this stuff go. You got to fix that connection. It isn't just the power supply to the starter but it is also the supply to the main breaker and subsequently to all other systems including EFI and ignition.


If it breaks fix it, you got to take care of this first.



What cam sensor did you clean? Did you actually remove the pipes and the cam chest cover? Me thinks you would be bit(hing louder if you did. Or did you clean the crank sensor?

56 is one of those codes that will set for no reason, ie if the bike kicks back during a failed starting attempt, but 42 is a code not to be trifled with.

On your bike there should be a connector next to the right frame rail that is the sensor harness plug, sometimes they get water in them, and there is a hot wire in there that sometimes feeds stray signals into the sensor wires and it's best to remove this wire from the connector and install it in a separate parallel connector.

In a worst case scenario a code 42 can be a early indication of cam bearing failure if the bike still has the rear cam outer ball bearing, in particular if it exhibits strange hard to start symphtoms.
It can easily be just a bad sensor, but it just seems to be very sensitive to airgap. Have seen some bikes where tha cams were changed and no one could get rid of the code even after dealers changed the sensor. Turned out they did not space the new cams properly. This last comment just to give you an idea on how sensitive this sensor can be.

In any case you have to fix the original problem first, and then if you still have a problem keep looking. If you keep putting this $hit off, you'll end up pushing the sumbit(h.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
HIPPO said:

What cam sensor did you clean? Did you actually remove the pipes and the cam chest cover? Me thinks you would be bit(hing louder if you did. Or did you clean the crank sensor?
I took off the cover on the right side cam cover chest (5 torx screws) and eased out the sensor there.
Can't do much til tomorrow, working today. Dark nearly when I get home.

Thanks for the replys, I'll read up all I can tonight.

ps. my motor was made 'After' Dec 99, so has the upgraded bearings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Work over............. :D

I'll be taking the post on the starter apart first thing in the morning. I've disconnected the - lead at the battery, Am I right in thinking that this will clear trouble codes if left disconnected overnight???

I want to get that post apart and cleaned up before reconnecting the power (with no codes) and see what happens. :(
 

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Good news you have the roller rear cam bearing.

No the codes will not necessarily be cleared, but if they are corrected they will now be historic codes. If they remain they should disappear within 50 run cycles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
HIPPO said:

they will now be historic codes. If they remain they should disappear within 50 run cycles.
If the problem 'is' the starter solenoid post connection, when cleaned up and 'corrected' should the 'Engine' check light stay off after starting?
ie, 'Current trouble' code not present, 'Historic code' logged for 50 start/stops.
 

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It might stay off after starting, but it likely will come on for about 8 seconds after starting and then it will go out and stay out. If it goes into this mode it will likely disappear after 50 start cycles, or sooner as you don't know when it started counting.

If it comes on at any time other then the 4 seconds when you turn the ignition on and the mentioned 8 seconds, it is likely still setting codes or there is another malfunction in the system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Got the post off, cleaned it up, smeared a coating of vasaline on it.

Did the same with the left side ground post/main ground harness/dc output from regulator.

The Right side ground post/main ground harnesses

40 amp main circuit breaker/main power/main power to breaker/dc output from regulator/EFI power

Both ends of all battery leads, in fact any leads, posts have been taken off, cleaned and replaced.

Its still doing it! :mad:

Started fine first go, but warmed up a bit, stopped the engine, tried starting again,.........no....no.........nearly............started.....

I've shut it off. :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
HIPPO said:
.
On your bike there should be a connector next to the right frame rail that is the sensor harness plug, sometimes they get water in them, and there is a hot wire in there that sometimes feeds stray signals into the sensor wires

Would this result in the symptoms I'm experiencing?

and it's best to remove this wire from the connector and install it in a separate parallel connector.

Is this the sensor harness you're talking about?



SERVICE BULLETIN
M-1099 February 15, 2000
1999 AND 2000 MODEL SERVICE INFORMATION
®
1999
Engine Sensor Harness
(FL and DYNA Models)
There have been reports of engine hesitation and/or hard
starting on some 1999 Twin Cam 88 model vehicles (both
carbureted and EFI) after being ridden in the rain or on wet
roads. In most cases, troubleshooting with the Scanalyzer
has indicated the existence of historic trouble codes 41, 42
and 56.
Further investigation typically reveals moisture/corrosion
inside the engine sensor harness connector (8-place Mini-Deutsch),
which is anchored to the threaded hole at the rear
right side of the crankcase. Moisture/corrosion corrupt the
signals from the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors
causing drivability problems and the resulting trouble codes.
To correct this problem, disconnect the engine sensor
harness connector and blow out any moisture using low
pressure compressed air. Liberally apply dielectric grease to
the inside of both pin and socket halves of the connector. If
corrosion is present, replace the connector and any
corroded terminals. [Complete a warranty claim using labor
code 5048. Prior authorization is required for vehicles out of
warranty.]
NOTE
Twin Cam 88 powered motorcycles built after July 1, 1999
have both harness and connector changes to prevent
moisture related problems.

If problems still persist, remove the oil pressure sending unit
wire from the connector (Green/Yellow wire in chamber 1).

Cut off the terminals and mate ends of wires using a heat-sealed
butt splice connector. Cable strap the wire to the
engine sensor harness conduit when finished.
 

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Yup, that sounds like the one.

Maybe the cam sensor just **** the bed. Scan the cam sensor output at the entry point to the ECM turning the engine over by hand if necessary.

If it keeps setting the code 42, the code 56 is just a side effect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sorry to be a burden, but could you explain in more detail what to do?

engine sensor harness connector (8-place Mini-Deutsch),
which is anchored to the threaded hole at the rear
right side of the crankcase


I can't seem to locate where this connector is?

Maybe the cam sensor just **** the bed. Scan the cam sensor output at the entry point to the ECM turning the engine over by hand if necessary.

Scan? How does one do this? With what? :rolleyes:

Would it be safe enough to continue driving if the cam sensor has bit the dust?

The only connector I see along the right frame is the Stator/voltage regulator.
 

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I can't seem to locate where this connector is?
It's there. You say you checked the cam sensor. If you follow the wires that come out of the nose cone about a foot away there is a connector, that's it.

Scan the cam sensor output at the entry point to the ECM turning the engine over by hand if necessary.

Scan? How does one do this? With what?
With a regular digital voltmeter. it's a square wave signal, it has one value when the sensor is on top of the ridge on the rear cam gear and another one when it's over the void, all you need is to check these two voltages. They are in the FM, but if you don't have one I can look them up, should have a FM somewhere here at home. Values are the same for all MM bikes.

Would it be safe enough to continue driving if the cam sensor has bit the dust?
Not really, if it is setting a hard code. It will either stop or fail to start whenever it wants to. Other then that nothing will happen. You have to decide.
 

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If you don't want to follow the wiring to the ECM, just check the voltages at the sensor harness, if the sensor itself is bad or weak the values will be out of spec there also. You just will not see if there is a voltage drop in the harness itself. It's easy to do on a RoadKing as you dont have all the overlayed harnesses you have on the other touring bikes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
HIPPO said:

it's a square wave signal, it has one value when the sensor is on top of the ridge on the rear cam gear and another one when it's over the void, all you need is to check these two voltages. They are in the FM.
If I'm reading the FM correctly the voltages you refer to are, quoting from the book............... "Voltage should be less than 1 volt or 6-10 VDC when Engine is Not cranking and 2-4 VDC when Engine is cranking.

Its all elementary now anyway.
I've no garage or workshop to work in so I've got the bike booked in to get the Front Master Cylinder overhauled this Thursday. it lives out in the rain! :eek:

Me thinks its safer for me to pay the extra and bite the bullet! :rolleyes:

I'll post their findings later in the week.

(the cam sensors fu(ked) Probably gonna eat my words :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Got it back from the Stealers on Thursday, had it Scanalised. One Dead Cam Sensor
Changed it today and the codes are now Funtional Error Engine light on for 8 seconds after initial start up. :D

50 start/stops to clear....or a scanalizer.

HIPPO said:

On your bike there should be a connector next to the right frame rail that is the sensor harness plug, sometimes they get water in them, and there is a hot wire in there that sometimes feeds stray signals into the sensor wires and it's best to remove this wire from the connector and install it in a separate parallel connector.

This connector isn't on my bike, The wire from the Sensor goes right back and connects under the side cover.


SERVICE BULLETIN
M-1099 February 15, 2000
Twin Cam 88 powered motorcycles built after July 1, 1999
have both harness and connector changes to prevent
moisture related
------------------- must have changed then?


The wire leading from the sensor out through the Cam cover cone looked a bit cooked with the Engine heat, I checked continuity through this stretch of wire, OK.
Thought maybe that was it, but no. Dead Sensor.

Anyway, all's well that ends well! ;)

Thanks for your help and patience Hippo
And for your input FLHT. :)

By the way, when I posted I intend to, The Bit(h as you 'call' it earns its money. last night, I didn't mean to be rude.....

Now, out for a run! I've got 50 stop starts to get through!

I was gonna scan and post the problem schematic pages out of the Factory Manual, for anybody that might need it for future reference. But with the MOCO snooping around I thought I'd better not, Copyright an all that: eek:

Anybody needs it, ping me an I'll send it to ya.
 
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