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scooter coot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm painting my EG this winter and have to put a new decal on the gas tank. I was going to sandwich it between clear coats, but read somewhere that the decal should not be clear coated. Any opinions out there???
Thanks.
 

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Ghetto Blaster
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decal

brittfan said:
I'm painting my EG this winter and have to put a new decal on the gas tank. I was going to sandwich it between clear coats, but read somewhere that the decal should not be clear coated. Any opinions out there???
Thanks.
The factory (MOCO) seems to do OK with this process...Look at the hundreds of thousands of heritage softails or fatboys. My question would be WHY? If you're custom painting it, why put a "decal" on it anyway...unless of course you're painting it to match an existing paint job. Just wondering...
 

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I had a bike painted several years ago and it got several coats of clear over the a standard size HD decal; never had an issue with it.
 

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1bdBagr said:
The factory (MOCO) seems to do OK with this process...Look at the hundreds of thousands of heritage softails or fatboys. My question would be WHY? If you're custom painting it, why put a "decal" on it anyway...unless of course you're painting it to match an existing paint job. Just wondering...
The new bikes are cleared with a new powder coat process. http://my.execpc.com/~davewrit/Powder.html under Color and Gloss choices .

"There are some water clear clearcoat powders on the market now that can be topcoated over other liquid spray paints and powders adding to the look of gloss and depth. Say what you will about them, but look at the finish on a new Harley. All Harley tanks and fenders are wet spray painted and coated with a special clear powder. The look is stunning, you get amazing depth, but it is beyond the application ability of most coaters to apply successfully.
 

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Ridin' with the King
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I have cleared over hundreds of decals and stripes and never had a problem. AS long as the surface is prepped correctly you should be fine. I would add though that you do not want to use acrylic laquer for this. Use a professional catalyzed urethane based clear like the ones from PPG or HOK and reduce it according to the mfgr intructions.

P.S. Al, the "PurpleHarley.com" guy lives right around the corner from me. He has some cool stuff and is a really nice guy. :)
 

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Ghetto Blaster
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Powder Coating & Clear Coating

Fxsts103ci said:
The new bikes are cleared with a new powder coat process. http://my.execpc.com/~davewrit/Powder.html under Color and Gloss choices .

"There are some water clear clearcoat powders on the market now that can be topcoated over other liquid spray paints and powders adding to the look of gloss and depth. Say what you will about them, but look at the finish on a new Harley. All Harley tanks and fenders are wet spray painted and coated with a special clear powder. The look is stunning, you get amazing depth, but it is beyond the application ability of most coaters to apply successfully.
This might be true for Later Model HD's...The original point of whether to clear or not clear coat over a factory HD decal, and how many THOUSANDS of sets of tanks got (wet) cleared over the years in Harley's factory paint line (successfully) is the question.
In running tests over decals, custom paint finishes and pinstriping with powder coated clear coats, SOME of the decals and colors literally changed colors when powder coated and baked in the oven. While I do not have any experiences with newer technology relating to powder coated clear coats, i'd guess that these are of a lower temp cure and perhaps shorter oven times to enable the results you mention. On the other side of the coin...the automotive clear coats available today (while sometimes rather expensive) are also water clear and still are within reach for the average small time or garage painter to do, hence the original question.....
 

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this is a great thread, i was/am completely ignorant to these new processes.
this kinda stuff is what a forum should be used for.:cheers:
 

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scooter coot
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hey 1bdBgr, thanks for the insight.
Just painting the bike 'cuz I'm tired of black. It's going to be a Hot Hues Raspberry, with a little white pearl thrown in.
I'm kinda new at this painting thing and have shot a couple old fenders, and was happy with the results, so i figure I'd repaint the EG.
 

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1bdBagr said:
This might be true for Later Model HD's...The original point of whether to clear or not clear coat over a factory HD decal, and how many THOUSANDS of sets of tanks got (wet) cleared over the years in Harley's factory paint line (successfully) is the question.
In running tests over decals, custom paint finishes and pinstriping with powder coated clear coats, SOME of the decals and colors literally changed colors when powder coated and baked in the oven. While I do not have any experiences with newer technology relating to powder coated clear coats, i'd guess that these are of a lower temp cure and perhaps shorter oven times to enable the results you mention. On the other side of the coin...the automotive clear coats available today (while sometimes rather expensive) are also water clear and still are within reach for the average small time or garage painter to do, hence the original question.....
My only reference to the powder coat was that the new decals may not be compatable with solvent based clear. I havent used a decal under clear in at least 8 years. Since the new tins are cleared without a solvent based clear the make up of the decal may have been changed. I would check before painting over the decal.. Just my opinion
 

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Fxsts103ci said:
Say what you will about them, but look at the finish on a new Harley. All Harley tanks and fenders are wet spray painted and coated with a special clear powder. The look is stunning, you get amazing depth, but it is beyond the application ability of most coaters to apply successfully.
While I agree Harley paint is good if compared to the metric bikes and automotive paint it is certainly not great. You simply can’t have orange peal and be great, and my 05 RK Custom has orange peel on the front fender. In fact, I have yet to see a Harley touring bike that did not have orange peal on the front fender. But on the other hand, the average Joe doesn’t know what to look for. Orange peel, the ability to feel the graphics under the clear, stenciled flame jobs, etc, etc. Just park a Harley next to a good custom paint job and the difference will jump out at you pretty quick.
 

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Fxsts103ci said:
My only reference to the powder coat was that the new decals may not be compatable with solvent based clear. I havent used a decal under clear in at least 8 years. Since the new tins are cleared without a solvent based clear the make up of the decal may have been changed. I would check before painting over the decal.. Just my opinion
Yours is a valid concern but really not a big deal at all with todays clears. A common problem is solvent pop and the best way to combat this is to use less solvent, I usually cut my solvent by around 50% and make up the difference with catlyst. Do this and you would have less solvent hitting the graphic in the first place. Also spray your first coat of clear over the decal fairly thin and dry, get a good flash and that will seal it. You could also seal it with an inner coat clear that has zero solvent. Anyone who has ever done repairs or touch ups on pearl graphics know what I am talking about. They will not tolorate any solvent and are bad to lift and wrinkle but if you know how you can seal them off. Compared to pearls a decal would be a walk in the park.
 

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El Mongo said:
While I agree Harley paint is good if compared to the metric bikes and automotive paint it is certainly not great. You simply can’t have orange peal and be great, and my 05 RK Custom has orange peel on the front fender. In fact, I have yet to see a Harley touring bike that did not have orange peal on the front fender. But on the other hand, the average Joe doesn’t know what to look for. Orange peel, the ability to feel the graphics under the clear, stenciled flame jobs, etc, etc. Just park a Harley next to a good custom paint job and the difference will jump out at you pretty quick.

El Mongo factory paint will have some orange peel to it. U really cant compare a factory paint job to a custom one . If the Moco did all the paint jobs like a custom painter it would cost 1000's more for a bike and not realistic on a production line .

My AMX and T-Bird took 3 weeks to finish paint.. 3 coats of base which was sanded with 600 paper and aluminium blocks . Then 2 more coats and three of clear. Clear was then sanded with 800 and reshot with a 2 slightly overthinned clear. dryed for 3 weeks then wet sanded 1500 then 2000 and buffed. All PPG DCC componants .This was over 6 years ago at my Uncles shop in Westchetser NY not a ripple or pop in the paint . I have done the same steps on bikes .
 

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El Mongo said:
Yours is a valid concern but really not a big deal at all with todays clears. A common problem is solvent pop and the best way to combat this is to use less solvent, I usually cut my solvent by around 50% and make up the difference with catlyst. Do this and you would have less solvent hitting the graphic in the first place. Also spray your first coat of clear over the decal fairly thin and dry, get a good flash and that will seal it. You could also seal it with an inner coat clear that has zero solvent. Anyone who has ever done repairs or touch ups on pearl graphics know what I am talking about. They will not tolorate any solvent and are bad to lift and wrinkle but if you know how you can seal them off. Compared to pearls a decal would be a walk in the park.
The dry spray works great specially if u dont know what type of paint was used prior. Used to get this alot in the 80's as paints changed rapidly. Try to do a repair and it would lift the clear or base. There were several clear sealers to stop it Dupont made a good one . As I remember it was ready to spray no thinning . I use House of color intercoat clear to do flames and marblizing on the bikes ..
 

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That's what I'm talking about 103! The AMX & the Bird sound very nice. That is pretty much how I finish my paint jobs out. Makes all the difference in the world. And I have also used the Dupont sealer, good stuff.
 

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Ghetto Blaster
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Ditto

Fxsts103ci said:
The dry spray works great specially if u dont know what type of paint was used prior. Used to get this alot in the 80's as paints changed rapidly. Try to do a repair and it would lift the clear or base. There were several clear sealers to stop it Dupont made a good one . As I remember it was ready to spray no thinning . I use House of color intercoat clear to do flames and marblizing on the bikes ..
I use the dry spray technique often when going over One-Shot striping enamel, even though i use catalyst in the striping paint. I generally don't have problems w/ lifting this way as you mentioned. Also...You hit the nail on the head with the changes in the paints. It seems as soon as I find a product I like, it's formula has been changed or discontinued altogether. Especially out here in sunny and screwy so cal, with the local AQMD screwing with the VOC's all the time.
 

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1bad, I know what u mean my uncle wanted to put an addition on his shop and with all the red tape and EPA crap he just decided to just close the place down . Place wasnt big enough for doing restorations and a full line body shop . He was in the same place for 38 years.He gave me alot of the tools so I built a 24x30 detached garage to do my own stuff.


these were posted a while back . http://65.38.172.84/forums/showthread.php?t=50155 should get some new ones when the weather breaks . Indoor shots do no justice .
 
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