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Discussion Starter #1
Interesting article, personally I don’t think this guy is remotely qualified to judge any administration considering the utter and complete failure of his own. This man was a disgrace to America.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/10/carter.torture/index.html

Scenario.
An Arab terrorist has just hidden a 50 MT nuclear bomb deep inside of a major US city with a population in excess of 3 million people. This bomb will detonate in 8 hours unless it is disrupted by EOD. We do not know where it is or what city.

The terrorist is in US custody and being interrogated, he refuses to talk. If he does not talk millions will die instantly.

In this scenario would you advocate torture or the Jimmy Carter method of dougnuts and coffee?
 

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Peacekeeper said:
Interesting article, personally I don’t think this guy is remotely qualified to judge any administration considering the utter and complete failure of his own. This man was a disgrace to America.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/10/carter.torture/index.html

Scenario.
An Arab terrorist has just hidden a 50 MT nuclear bomb deep inside of a major US city with a population in excess of 3 million people. This bomb will detonate in 8 hours unless it is disrupted by EOD. We do not know where it is or what city.

The terrorist is in US custody and being interrogated, he refuses to talk. If he does not talk millions will die instantly.

In this scenario would you advocate torture or the Jimmy Carter method of dougnuts and coffee?
You know I guess I'm basically in agreement with you PK. I used to respect Carter as a good man even if he was a bad president. I've lost a lot of that respect.

But playing devil's advocate, what do you do when you find out the terrorist you have in custody turns out to not know anything about this bomb nor is even a terrorist?
 

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But playing devil's advocate, what do you do when you find out the terrorist you have in custody turns out to not know anything about this bomb nor is even a terrorist?[/QUOTE]


It's called colateral damage?
I have no problem with sacrificing one for the good of the many.
Our boys and girls in uniform are sacrificing themselves every day.
Carter is, was and always be a moron.
I think he ate too many green peanuts or something because his mind is just not right.
 

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sniper said:
It's called colateral damage?
I have no problem with sacrificing one for the good of the many.
Our boys and girls in uniform are sacrificing themselves every day.
Carter is, was and always be a moron.
I think he ate too many green peanuts or something because his mind is just not right.

As long as it's not someone you know or love, right?
 

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collateral dammage

sniper said:
But playing devil's advocate, what do you do when you find out the terrorist you have in custody turns out to not know anything about this bomb nor is even a terrorist?

It's called collateral damage?
I have no problem with sacrificing one for the good of the many.
Our boys and girls in uniform are sacrificing themselves every day.
Carter is, was and always be a moron.
I think he ate too many green peanuts or something because his mind is just not right.[/QUOTE]


Collateral dammage sacrifice one for the good of many.
What a grate line of BS. You might just as well walk down the streets of America and kill off a few people in the name of Alah
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I served under the Carter administration. It was some of the darkest days for our great military.
 

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Peacekeeper said:
I served under the Carter administration. It was some of the darkest days for our great military.
what was dark about it? I'm not arguing, I just want to know. Can you compare it to the military under Clinton?
 

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darkest days

Peacekeeper said:
I served under the Carter administration. It was some of the darkest days for our great military.
Carter was president from 1977 to 1981 (30 years ago more or less.) And you and I were a lot younger. While I was out of the military for a few years by then I can not understand your "darkest days" comment. Vietnam was over and a lot of military were unhappy becasue they were no longer seen as a necessary fighting force by many. I'd expect your commentary to be related to the downsizing that was going on. But maybe you have some other perspective.
 

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One of our military's most embarassing failures came on Carter's watch. That was the failed hostage rescue mission in Iran. As I recall, the helicopters ended up grounded because of mechanical failures due to sand. Many attributed this to a lack of preparation which was the result of spending cuts.

That, and Carter's admission that his little girl Amy was one of his advisors he sought when making decisions concerning national defense were just two of the many reasons he lost his reelection campaign.
 

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bigbluff said:
One of our military's most embarassing failures came on Carter's watch. That was the failed hostage rescue mission in Iran. As I recall, the helicopters ended up grounded because of mechanical failures due to sand. Many attributed this to a lack of preparation which was the result of spending cuts.
Does that mean you would rank what is going on in Iraq and the war on terror as another embarrassing failure? I mean with the lack of preparation on how to handle the situation after we invaded the country, the failure to provide enough soldiers to even secure Baghdad, not enough body armor for the troops, the incompetent Secretary of Defense who Bush stood behind for so long, the failure to capture or kill OBL, etc...etc...etc...

C'mon, at least admit that Bush is a failure as Commander in Chief. The troops are doing a great job.
:hmmm:
 

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bigbluff said:
As I recall, the helicopters ended up grounded because of mechanical failures due to sand. Many attributed this to a lack of preparation which was the result of spending cuts. BS flag
As I recall they ran into a sandstorm which would have grounded even todays equipment...and several other errors that were the direct result of poor command decisions and tactical planning.

Here are 2 historical links (one is the officially recognized news version and the other is from a Military Historian) : http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/apjinternational/apj-s/2006/3tri06/kampseng.html http://yarchive.net/mil/iran_rescue.html
 

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toybox99615 said:
Carter was president from 1977 to 1981 (30 years ago more or less.) And you and I were a lot younger. While I was out of the military for a few years by then I can not understand your "darkest days" comment. Vietnam was over and a lot of military were unhappy becasue they were no longer seen as a necessary fighting force by many. I'd expect your commentary to be related to the downsizing that was going on. But maybe you have some other perspective.

I'll jump in on this one!

TB it wasn't just the the downsizing, it was how it was accomplished. It was the severe budget cuts that didn't allow units to repair equipment, there were 3 planes used to keep one flying types of scenarios. Canabalism was the operative word in the repair shops. There was no money for bullets to train or any other training for that matter. Things like that were hard on morale.

But it was also the attitude of the Congress and White House, they seemed to carry the attutude of the protesters during the Vietnam war - all soldiers are bad. That was the killer for morale. It wasn't that we were unecessary - it was we were scum. Same attitude Kerry displayed when he made his comments about being too dumb to do anything else.

To top it off the pay sucked and got worse. Inflation was running in dbl digits but Carter capped pay at 3.5% so underpayed soldiers and sailors were having to get 2nd jobs just to keep food on the table. I remember I was eligible for food stamps when I made E-6 in 1980. I also remember not getting a paycheck on 15 OCT 1978, 15 OCT 1979, and 30 OCT 1979. Yes we got our pay the next paydays but that didn't put food on the table when we needed it.

Had Carter been re-elected in 80 I would have left the service after my 1st hitch just to be able to make a living wage. Matter of fact I seriously looked elsewhere but Carter saw the writing on the wall and gave us a big raise after he lost the election. Reagan promised to continue with the raises, which he did, I re-upped and did 30.
 

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"Our country for the first time in my life time has abandoned the basic principle of human rights," Carter said.

He served in the Navy as a Submariner during WWII, and during that time the government took people of Japanese descent and put them in internment camps. They lost all they had, but I guess he doesn't remember that part of his life. As far as serving during Carters term, he froze all pay raises and as far as I'm concerned made a mockery of the military and the US. Hell, even Clinton rates higher with me than Carter, and I despise Clinton.
 

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Jimmy Carter, the peanut farmer? What the fvck does he know about terrorism? Forget Jimmy Carter. Let him build homes for the poor. He has no other qualifications except to grow peanuts. Jimmy is a bad memory. Let him die in obscurity. He has no relevance to modern times.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
cwo2lt said:
I'll jump in on this one!

TB it wasn't just the the downsizing, it was how it was accomplished. It was the severe budget cuts that didn't allow units to repair equipment, there were 3 planes used to keep one flying types of scenarios. Canabalism was the operative word in the repair shops. There was no money for bullets to train or any other training for that matter. Things like that were hard on morale.

But it was also the attitude of the Congress and White House, they seemed to carry the attutude of the protesters during the Vietnam war - all soldiers are bad. That was the killer for morale. It wasn't that we were unecessary - it was we were scum. Same attitude Kerry displayed when he made his comments about being too dumb to do anything else.

To top it off the pay sucked and got worse. Inflation was running in dbl digits but Carter capped pay at 3.5% so underpayed soldiers and sailors were having to get 2nd jobs just to keep food on the table. I remember I was eligible for food stamps when I made E-6 in 1980. I also remember not getting a paycheck on 15 OCT 1978, 15 OCT 1979, and 30 OCT 1979. Yes we got our pay the next paydays but that didn't put food on the table when we needed it.

Had Carter been re-elected in 80 I would have left the service after my 1st hitch just to be able to make a living wage. Matter of fact I seriously looked elsewhere but Carter saw the writing on the wall and gave us a big raise after he lost the election. Reagan promised to continue with the raises, which he did, I re-upped and did 30.
You answered Toybox's and Fred's questions for me. Chief you hit the nail right on the head, these were, as I said, the darkest days of our military. Great answer.
 

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I thought this was a thread about how listening to Carter IS a form of torture.
:blink:

Vulcans have been known to go suicide listening to "peanut boy's*" 'logic'.

*...and I use the term 'peanut'boy' with the utmost respect for the former commander-in-chief.
 

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I'm sorry but I don't equate interrogation with torture. The interrogation techniques they describe like "slapping the face, cold temps, and simulated drowning" are not what I'd call torture. I lived through worse living with my ex-wife.

Do we have any Viet Nam POWs on the board? Maybe they could enlighten some of you as to what torture really is....

Wake up people, we are the only ones following the rules in this war. The enemy doesn't care one whit about the Geneva convention except where it serves thier purposes for propaganda....
 

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Shaw_2112 said:
Wake up people, we are the only ones following the rules in this war. The enemy doesn't care one whit about the Geneva convention except where it serves thier purposes for propaganda....
Ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winna! Pick anything from the top row Sir!
 
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