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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok,i took my heads off to have leaking v stem seals fixed and when i changed my oil i found brass in my oil filter.i did put a new cam plate in about 800 miles back,.003 runout on pinion shaft.couldnt the brass be from the pinion bushing wearing to the shaft?you cannot move the rod up & down,it will move side to side,but how much is to much side to side?anything else i can do without splitting case to make sure the crank is alright?its a 2000 b engine.any help would be greatly apreciated.
 

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Hellbound Train
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Brass could be coming from the connecting rods but more than likely, the new cam plate or maybe your rockers.
 

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Did the cam plate come with the brass bushing? if not how did you bore the bushing to fit? The tolerance spec,d out in the book doesn't really make any sense. I bet that brass is coming from the cam plate bushing.
 

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Debras in my oil

Factory side play is .020 max for the big end. What did the brass look like? Was it thin flat pieces like flakes or was it like grains of sand or like silver paint in the oil.You can grab one rod at a time and pull up then lightly rap the top of the rod with a hammer if the bearings are shot you will hear a rattle.Excessive side play indicates worn thrust surface.And usually means the big end is shot as well because the debris get into the bearings.There was a time when something like the cam support plate was machined as part of the case and could not be replaced by itself.Now with C.N.C. maching centers it is not a problem.With the early tc88's and the cam bearing failure's some engines wiped out the support plate.A special order got you a new one from H.D.Now there are numerous aftermarket replacements.What I don't know is weather H.D. shared the blueprint with these companys?If not then they had to digatize off an old part for all the dowell pins,bearing centers ect.All these parts have a tolerance say +/- .0015 and the factory cases were off that much to the front and the aftermarket cam plate is off the same to the back we might get a bind in the crank and cams. It is ez to look at the bushing in the cam plate a see an odd wear pattern or damage.I install the plates with no chain or gears with the cylinders off and make sure the cams spin free as well as the crank. .003 runnout in the end of the crank is not bad.You can build these things and true them perfect and and after a few hard runs they will be out .001 to .003.let us know what kid of debris you have and we might be able to pinpoint the sourse.
Big Al
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
the pieces looked like tiny flakes,not long after i put the plate in(it was new hd with pinion bushing also)i changed oil and found a good bit of brass,went on a 650 mile trip this weekend and checked again and it wasnt as bad but was there,hard to find in filter but i drained the oil in a 5 qt. oil can (clean)and let it set 2 days and poured the oil oit and you could see the flakes in the bottom of the can.im about to go check side play.tried to quickly do it last night and was getting about .040,but i need to find a way to hold the indicator to get a true reading.how much to rebuild lower end and balance & true crank anyways.may be better to just get it done so not to worry.thanks for the help guys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ok,i got some more accurate readings with a dial indicator.no up down movement,the front rod rocks back & forth .023 and the rear rod .011, i dont really know if that means anything but i think the crank is ok, goung to send cylinders of to get re honed and pistons fitted tomorrow and study on it while im waiting
 

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A fealer gage works fine to check side play.023 is pushing the limit.The flakes are what you would get when the thrust washers start to come apart.They kinda get pealed back by sides of the rod. You can carefully cut the oil filer apart.Cut it close to the seaing ring. A zizs wheel works ok you just have to ingnore the debris left by the wheel.Most of the debris should be in the filter.You can see the thrust washers on each side of the rear rod.With that much debris you should be able to see damage to the washers?even some discoloring.I am kinda surprized you havent had an oil pressure problem as the debris get stuck in the bypass valve.Have you inspected the oil pump look closely at the return side it will be beat up more than the pressure side. If the pinion bushing is going it will be ez to see as well as the rocker bushings and pin bushings.However when the bushings go they tend gaul discolor and seze to the shaft or create there own clearence and continue running but with more nose. Do you have any new sounds?Be carefull something like this can result in a big boom.These engines can't grow stuff back.The metal came from somewear and sooner or later will rear its ulgy head. Just for grinns see if you can pick up any of the debris with a magnet.
Big Al
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
that last reply helped alot. i know what im looking at now.the thrust washers look good from what i can see,on the cam side .012 was all i could get in .014 would start but thats it(didnt try to force it)the clutch side only .006 would fit and i dont think it was going in all the way.but as for the pinion bushing from what i understand the tolerance is .001 and i have .003 in runout so putting a new plate or bushing in its going to have to clearance itself as far as i can tell.i dont understand why they let the runnout tolerance be at .003 and p.bushing at .001.so it seems all is well with the crank,exept the runnout,but thats not worth a bottom end job yet.o,yea as far as any new noises goes when i put the 570s in the valve train is a little noisey at idle once warm but is tolerable.and seems to be quiet riding down the road or my exhaust is louder than the noise.thanks for everyones help and any more info would be welcomed also
 

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When you check the side play in the con rod big end move the rod all the way to one side and check total clearence on the other but it sounds like you are ok the fealer gage will sometines get stuck on the roller cage.
Big Al
 

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IronButt
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I had a crank set go out on my b motor when it was a 107. Funny thing was no problems at all ( cutting filter) until went to syn oil??!!! It went out within a few hundred miles. I never understood that one. I had even done a oil sample on the oil change before syn and all was fine. By wheels had .035 for side clearance, it created a huge issue with 107 piston. I ended up runing a cylinder inthe process.
 

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Hay H.D. wrench. What failed? result of oil test. I am building a 116 b now plan on removing the balance shafts.Do you think it was the syn oil?
Thanking you in advance. Big Al
 
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