Break-in on 95" Big Bore?
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@gree:nvsteve said:
What he said, lots of disagreement on this. My opinion, Balls to the wall. If its going to break, I want to break it NOW, not later.
Teu
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Break in is break in. Some people believe in it and some people don't.
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Hello Huntray...........definiteley a debatable subject on here if you go by past threads.......Huntray said:
Heat Cycles are generally for new bikes that have not been run before to de-stress the entire engine and get the cases, etc to achieve their final "set" position, however, it will not hurt anything if you want to do this even if you have only done a bore/head/cam change.
Some like to start the bike and let it idle until it has reached its full operating temp. then turn it off and let it cool down completely then do this again 2 or 3 times.
Others like me like to start my bike and gently ride it around for 20/30 minutes and then let it cool off completeley as this gets engine/trans/primary up to operating temp and in my mind achieves a more complete "set" at the interfaces of these components.
In reality your motor goes through the heat cycle every time you run it, but true heat cycling has improved engine life due to de-stressing the engine components in the first hours of any engines life.
As to which is the better way...........:dunno:
Break in:
In the first 100 miles, bring the engine up to 3000rpm max. through the gears to 4th gear................naturally, varying cruise speed constantly.
Try to stay at 3000rpm max for this length of time as this is the time that rings break if you push it.
100/300 miles..........once the engine has reached operating temp., start to bring the bike up in stronger pulls through the gears so that by the time you are at 300 miles you are doing hard runs up to 5000rpm or so.....again varying the speed at cruise..............this is generally enough for new cylinders and piston/ring kits.
I dont like to go hard in first gear until the bike has approx. 500 miles on it, as 1st gear creates the highest stress, in my opinion.
Rings achieve their full seal from this point up to approx. 1100 miles, dependant on how you broke her in.........and the cross hatch honing pattern degrees.
Incidently, while there are number of reasons why rings break, here are some common ways:
When fitting them over the piston you put a stress in the ring by careless assembly and this leads to ring failure.
You set the ring gap too tight, and in combination with the piston to cylinder fit.........the ring has no where to go when the engine heats up.
The honing process is not completed correctly and the micro surface has left too large a ridge surface which "grabs" the ring.
There was no oil film in the cylinders when the cylinder/piston/rings were assembled and the motor was run first up.
Cylinder Glazing and poor ring seal occurs when the engine has been run in too gently and instead of the ridges in the cylinders wearing in to suit the rings and vice versa, the ridges have folded over and trap oil which is burnt during the combustion cycle and now forms a hard varnish that builds up and causes blow by which results in poor performance.
All the best, Ozzie
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I do agree with the OZ method
I feel the rings with modern materials and machining methods are broken in after the first ride or sooner. That said piston fit with some of the hypers should be very tight and until the cyl walls get a little poilish to them I would want to avoid scuffing so I take it easy until after the first tank of gas at least. Load and unload the first ride but keep it below 3k.
For more information from experts consult the websites of Bishops Performance, Axtell (tech articles), S&S (install instructions), and Hastings ring co just to name a few.
I feel the rings with modern materials and machining methods are broken in after the first ride or sooner. That said piston fit with some of the hypers should be very tight and until the cyl walls get a little poilish to them I would want to avoid scuffing so I take it easy until after the first tank of gas at least. Load and unload the first ride but keep it below 3k.
For more information from experts consult the websites of Bishops Performance, Axtell (tech articles), S&S (install instructions), and Hastings ring co just to name a few.
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Keep a pretty good load on the engine, both accel and decel without lugging or beating the crap out of it. Change oil at 20-50 miles and continue to 500 miles.
By the way that's how I did mine and I'm going in again soon and I will post pic's of the result good or bad.
If you want some interesting reading do a search for how they break in aircraft engine rebuilds. For them it's pretty much pedal to the medal.
By the way that's how I did mine and I'm going in again soon and I will post pic's of the result good or bad.
If you want some interesting reading do a search for how they break in aircraft engine rebuilds. For them it's pretty much pedal to the medal.
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anybody use this procedure? Baisley reccomends it for built motors.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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Hi adlerx, did quite a bit of racing myself, used to put a fine taper on the undersides of the rings and change hatch angle to improve breakin time and reduce friction to gain a few so called free horses but rings would only last a few races.adlerx said:
Also used to have some pictures of the results of broken rings caused by being too over zealous in my breakin time .........................new cylinders were just as expensive then as they are now.
What is not mentioned by this guy and this is not to say what he is doing is wrong as his method has been proven when honing is correct, hatch angle is correct, and piston and ring fit are as per........is that the moco or any engine manufacturer for that matter has a range of tolerances to build a motor on and the moco breakin recommendations try to account for their worst case engine assembly tolerances, which are mostly a result of machine tool wear during so many builds.
I did want to say how the race boys break their engines in but felt it might end up confusing the newbies.........and just who actually do a hone , cut the barrels in half and check the hone ridges under micro/macro examination............generally only the factory teams..........
All the best, Ozzie
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http://www.axtellsales.com/RonsDocs/Ring Seal.pdf
Please visit this website
A few comments:
RE: Mototune Usa he deals with watercooled engines.
I feel his method will work a good majority of the time if the machining, assembly and tune are right on. From all the horror stories on these forums I would not venture a guess how often that happens? So there is the safe way and then there is another way that will accomplish the same end result. I choose safe.
Please visit this website
A few comments:
RE: Mototune Usa he deals with watercooled engines.
I feel his method will work a good majority of the time if the machining, assembly and tune are right on. From all the horror stories on these forums I would not venture a guess how often that happens? So there is the safe way and then there is another way that will accomplish the same end result. I choose safe.
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He,he,he. Those instruction are for old russian boxers with SV engines. but basicaly it is Harley factory instruction of breakin in:SamC said:
1.during first 50 miles RPMS under 2500 in any gear but do not lug the engine. Speed max 50 MPH
2. up to 500 miles vary the engine speed and avoid steady speeds for long distances. Engine speed up to 3000 RPM. Speed 55MPH
And I think with oli (and filter!!) change at 50 and at 500 miles. then go for a dyno run (for correct carburator /EFI tuning) and again break it in on a dyno.
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Isn't that kind of a contradiction of statements? maybe not for built motors with a little bit down there, but for new stock? Anything below 2500 is lugging the engine on a new stock motor....Don Camillo said:
Anyhow, thanks for the input guys, I got a pretty good handle on how I'll do it now.
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it's not rocket science, as they say.......
Please note: if there is no problem, it is better to touch nothing as everything is adjusted!
:hystria: :hystria: :hystria:
SamC said:
Please note: if there is no problem, it is better to touch nothing as everything is adjusted!
:hystria: :hystria: :hystria:
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141 Posts
66-76 octane?? Must be skunk gas!!
Break-in
More shops are using the "Motoman" method. Latus motors in Portland,Or. uses a method BASED on the Motoman process but it is a LOT more involved precisely because these are air cooled motors. The results have been the best dyno numbers yet with zero downroad problems. This is the process Baisley recomends due to this success and are recomending it for motors they build. The need do offer such a service came from doing long distance builds. Bikes shipped from South Carolina (and other parts) to Oregon, could not be returned in an untuned state nor could the local guys be expected to deal with something someone else created. This process does not fully break the bike in but does get it past the critical phases. The real beauty of this process is that the owner recieves the bike in a fully tuned state and the first riding impressions are way better than the possible 500+ mile road break-in in an untuned state (especially true for EFI bikes-which might actually risk problems). The rest of the break-in process is also now completed in a tuned state and the shop has the chance to make sure everything is OK (oil leaks, loose parts, etc.) before delivery. Last, the owner (and shop) knows what the bikes performance level is, if it met his expectations and if not what may be needed to achieve those goals.
More shops are using the "Motoman" method. Latus motors in Portland,Or. uses a method BASED on the Motoman process but it is a LOT more involved precisely because these are air cooled motors. The results have been the best dyno numbers yet with zero downroad problems. This is the process Baisley recomends due to this success and are recomending it for motors they build. The need do offer such a service came from doing long distance builds. Bikes shipped from South Carolina (and other parts) to Oregon, could not be returned in an untuned state nor could the local guys be expected to deal with something someone else created. This process does not fully break the bike in but does get it past the critical phases. The real beauty of this process is that the owner recieves the bike in a fully tuned state and the first riding impressions are way better than the possible 500+ mile road break-in in an untuned state (especially true for EFI bikes-which might actually risk problems). The rest of the break-in process is also now completed in a tuned state and the shop has the chance to make sure everything is OK (oil leaks, loose parts, etc.) before delivery. Last, the owner (and shop) knows what the bikes performance level is, if it met his expectations and if not what may be needed to achieve those goals.
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