[Nightboy]

I wouldnt use anything except Redline.

 

[csoday]

Syn3 all three holes

 

[Ultra RB]

Mobil 1 in all three ...

I have been using M1 15/50 in all three holes ... seems to work fine. I figure if Syn3 is just a 20/50 syn then the M1 15/50 should be as good or in fact probably a bit better ...

I just did a fluid change ... and just for the sake of trying something different I put Castrol Syntec 5/50 (no friction mods) in the engine and primary, and used Castrol Syntec 75/90 in the trans.

Took it for ride and I'd swear the trans shifts smoother ...

Never tried the 75/90 in the primary ... as far as I know neither the 5/50 or the 75/90 have friction modifiers ... so all well there.

BTW, the M1 I drained out of the trans was as clean as when I put it in there 3500 miles ago ...

 

[goingsking]

I would not use gear oil inthe primiary. The 10w-40 that Mobil is referring to is their motorcycle oil for metric bikes (with radiators and wet clutches). Several people I have spoken to all who know a lot about bikes gave me the following information:

Best: 20w-50 Mobil 1 V-Twin in the crank
75w-90 Mobil synthetic gear oil in the transmission
10w-40 Mobil motorcycle oil in the primary

I have been using the V-twin in my bikes for years and pulled the sync 3 after one change. I run the 20w-50 in the summer in both primary and crank but will change to 15W-50 (Red Cap, no friction modifiers and inexpensive) in the crank and primary unless I go to autozone and pick up some 10W-40 Mobil motorcycle oil.

The next best option is to use the 20w-50 in the primary and crank, after that, 20w50 in all three holes.

 

[georgedouglas]

After reading these threads I see what makes America great. It is the freedom to share opinions and have independent thoughts. My thoughts on this topic is based on personal experience and chemistry documentation of used oil for over 20 plus years on this subject. What I have found is you can use the 20w 50 in all cavities very safely and you can use the 75w 90 in the tranny and as well. Either one will protect the unit. As far as the primary goes no wet clutch manufacture will ever recommend a gear lube coming into contact with their clutches and has additives that could harm the clutch plates of time. That fluid was never designed for clutches. Also the clutch could care less if it is a 40 or 50 weight oil. The oil is only being used to cool the plate material during engagement and disengagement. Now with this said there could be some radical situations where a person might find something that works better, but it isn't meant for continuous street use and certainly not for long service life.

 

[DMC]

Thanks for sharing the info on the Mobile1 15/50 red cap. The jury is in and I'm going to use that in the crankcase and primary, and Mobile1 75/90 in the tranny. I guess the M1 15/50 won't cause clutch slip. I'll be sending the lubes off for analysis, on the next service. If anybody wants to get a good analysis, I get very good ones from Shell. They list like 30 or more properties including TBN, fuel dilution, and viscosity.

Thanks Again

Don

 

[DMC]

As far as the primary goes no wet clutch manufacture will ever recommend a gear lube coming into contact with their clutches and has additives that could harm the clutch plates of time. That fluid was never designed for clutches. Also the clutch could care less if it is a 40 or 50 weight oil. The oil is only being used to cool the plate material during engagement and disengagement. Now with this said there could be some radical situations where a person might find something that works better, but it isn't meant for continuous street use and certainly not for long service life.[/QUOTE]


George:
I have read many of your posts on this board in a short period of time, and I respect that you have done your homework on this subject.

To say that no clutch manufacturer will ever recomend gear lube coming into contact with their clutches. Is just plain wrong. How many limited slip applications are there on the road? I work on Tug Boats and we have Rolls Royce thrusters on a Z Drive Tug that has Mobil Gear 629, in the box in a wet clutch application. Several of the other boats that we have use gear oil in conventional clutch/gearbox applications as well. And Some of the older boats use Mobile gear 630. The 630 is as 220wt oil, and the 629 is 150wt industrial gear oil. I don't think it has the hypoid rating however.

So I wouldn't say that no one is reccomending gear oil in a wet clutch application. Now in all fairness yes there are many manufacturers, that recomend hydraulic oil in wet clutch applications. I think this is the same scenario we run into with auto transmission lubes. It all depends on the clutch material. I have another interesting tidbit of info, DTT Transmission Builders up in the NW, are doing a test on a 47RE Dodge Truck transmission running Mobile1 10/30.

Yes there are just about as many oil opinons as there are a$$holes. Some are worth reading, some not. Go to any forum that has a discussion on oil, and you will see a lot of different opinions.
I can say that you are one of the more knowlegable Amsoil guys that I have run accross.

Thanks

Don

 

[georgedouglas]

As far as the primary goes no wet clutch manufacture will ever recommend a gear lube coming into contact with their clutches and has additives that could harm the clutch plates of time. That fluid was never designed for clutches. Also the clutch could care less if it is a 40 or 50 weight oil. The oil is only being used to cool the plate material during engagement and disengagement. Now with this said there could be some radical situations where a person might find something that works better, but it isn't meant for continuous street use and certainly not for long service life.

George:
I have read many of your posts on this board in a short period of time, and I respect that you have done your homework on this subject.

To say that no clutch manufacturer will ever recomend gear lube coming into contact with their clutches. Is just plain wrong. How many limited slip applications are there on the road? I work on Tug Boats and we have Rolls Royce thrusters on a Z Drive Tug that has Mobil Gear 629, in the box in a wet clutch application. Several of the other boats that we have use gear oil in conventional clutch/gearbox applications as well. And Some of the older boats use Mobile gear 630. The 630 is as 220wt oil, and the 629 is 150wt industrial gear oil. I don't think it has the hypoid rating however.

So I wouldn't say that no one is reccomending gear oil in a wet clutch application. Now in all fairness yes there are many manufacturers, that recomend hydraulic oil in wet clutch applications. I think this is the same scenario we run into with auto transmission lubes. It all depends on the clutch material. I have another interesting tidbit of info, DTT Transmission Builders up in the NW, are doing a test on a 47RE Dodge Truck transmission running Mobile1 10/30.

Yes there are just about as many oil opinons as there are a$$holes. Some are worth reading, some not. Go to any forum that has a discussion on oil, and you will see a lot of different opinions.
I can say that you are one of the more knowlegable Amsoil guys that I have run accross.

Thanks

Don[/QUOTE]

Don,
You are correct as I was very narrowly focussing on motorcycle clutches and forgot about the many other applications that you pointed out. I hate to be wrong, but I would rather find this out even if it hurts. Good research. Keep in mind though that an additive of friction modifiers has to be added with gear lube when used in limited slip differentials so clutches won't charter. With wet clutches in motorcycles it is recommended against any oil that has friction modifiers in them. I still would recommend against the practice of using gearlube in the primary though because another job that the fluid has to do is keep the clutch plates clean as well as cool and I don't feel in this application that gearlube would be the best choice.

 

[DMC]

I am somewhat keptical about the Gear Oil in the primary, as I think it may make the engagement quite grabby. I would imagine that would cause difficulty when driving in traffic, and may increase wear.

I think I'm going with the M1 15/50 in the primary, put the 15/50 in the crankcase today and it was running about 195* in stop and go traffic. I think that is pretty decent.

Going to put the M1 75/90 in the gear box in the next few days as well.

I'm not knocking Amsoil by any means I just like Mobil, and Chevron.


I'll post back on this thread how it goes.

Thanks for all the good info guys.

Don

 

[07roadking60]

Clutch slippage with Redline MTL

Just wanted to add a post here. I put Redline MTL in my primary at 4000 miles. I now have 14000. At about 12000 miles, the clutch started to slip and then catch during upshifts. This is under hard acceleration. When the clutch is released, you can hear the engine "wind up" like the clutch is slipping temporarily and then it engages fully. I thought it might be an adjustment problem but the adjustment is fine after checking the specs in the shop manual.

I was at a Harley dealership talking to the Parts Manager about a performance build that his friend did on a Sportster. He told me his friend had the same problem with Redline MTL and they drained it, flushed the clutch pack and refilled it with Formula + Harley lube. That stopped the problem. The reason for the issue is that the Redline MTL formulation can cause a problem with a "guminess" type of effect on the friction plates. What happens is that something in the fluid causes the plates to not perform properly when the clutch is released. They will eventually catch when the film of fluid is expelled after the clutch is released but it causes the temporary slip.

Sound crazy? I will let you know after I go back to Formula +. I really like Redline products and I run Heavy Shock Proof in my Trans and will not use anything else. Has anybody else experienced this issue with their clutch with Redline or any other type of synthetic lube in the primary?

 

[georgedouglas]

Just wanted to add a post here. I put Redline MTL in my primary at 4000 miles. I now have 14000. At about 12000 miles, the clutch started to slip and then catch during upshifts. This is under hard acceleration. When the clutch is released, you can hear the engine "wind up" like the clutch is slipping temporarily and then it engages fully. I thought it might be an adjustment problem but the adjustment is fine after checking the specs in the shop manual.

I was at a Harley dealership talking to the Parts Manager about a performance build that his friend did on a Sportster. He told me his friend had the same problem with Redline MTL and they drained it, flushed the clutch pack and refilled it with Formula + Harley lube. That stopped the problem. The reason for the issue is that the Redline MTL formulation can cause a problem with a "guminess" type of effect on the friction plates. What happens is that something in the fluid causes the plates to not perform properly when the clutch is released. They will eventually catch when the film of fluid is expelled after the clutch is released but it causes the temporary slip.

Sound crazy? I will let you know after I go back to Formula +. I really like Redline products and I run Heavy Shock Proof in my Trans and will not use anything else. Has anybody else experienced this issue with their clutch with Redline or any other type of synthetic lube in the primary?

Does the Redline MTL meet wet clutch specs MA/MA2 or even MB?

 

[07roadking60]

George:

I looked at the Redline homepage and their spec sheets don't mention anything about MTL meeting wet clutch specs. The Redline motorcycle engine oil does mention that it works well with wet clutch application and has friction modifiers in it. I went with MTL originally because of numerous posts on V-Twin forum saying that is what they used. It looks like the Redline motorcycle engine oil might be a better choice for the primary. I am still going back to Formula + for now to see if it stops the slippage and might change to Redline or Royal Purple engine oil in the primary in the future.

 

[georgedouglas]

George:

I looked at the Redline homepage and their spec sheets don't mention anything about MTL meeting wet clutch specs. The Redline motorcycle engine oil does mention that it works well with wet clutch application and has friction modifiers in it. I went with MTL originally because of numerous posts on V-Twin forum saying that is what they used. It looks like the Redline motorcycle engine oil might be a better choice for the primary. I am still going back to Formula + for now to see if it stops the slippage and might change to Redline or Royal Purple engine oil in the primary in the future.

I think others have used the MTL without any issues, but your clutch might be a little marginal and the slipping issue shows up for you. Keep us posted on how the Formula + works out.

 

[hdmarsh77]

My primary didn't like Form+ at all. Hard shifting, dragging and slipping. Just inconsistant action. Felt like I had just put in water.

The Redline MTL was ok. I didn't realize that it was just ok until I started using Amsoil Supershift.


Regular 20w-50 oil: ok
Formula+: crap
B&M Trickshift: ok
Redline MTL: pretty good
Amsoil SS: the best so far

71,000 on engine.

 

[G-money]

I had severe clutch grab on my 06 Road Glide for over a year. Moco says normal. I switched to Mobil 1 in the primary and the clutch is now smooth as butter!
Gary D.

 

[1711tab]

I converted my Dyna Wide Glide over to Mobil 1 "V-Twin" oil in last weekend. I also put the 70-90W Mobil 1 in the chain case. The problem is that I could not find any 10W40 Mobil 1.

Amsoil Super Shift from site sponsor George.......




{salute( :spank: {salute(

 

[TomD]

Currently, I am using Mobil synthetics. V-Twin in the engine, 75-95 in the trans and ATF in the primary. The shifting and clutch performance is miles better than motor oil in all three.

Tom

 

[gdkenoyer]

wow, this might well be a record.

You guys resurrected a stirng that was 3 years dead!

 

[MilesToGo]

wow, this might well be a record.

You guys resurrected a stirng that was 3 years dead!

Check the original post date: Aug 2002. This may in fact be a record of some sort. But getting back to the subject of primary oil...we are talking chain and clutch lubrication here. You don't need and expensive synthetic for this application. Just buy the "not so cheap" Harley primary fluid and stop worrying about it.

 

[hdmarsh77]

The ''not so cheap'' HD fluid will probably work for 90% of the bikes out there but I know there is a difference in mine with different fluids.

A lot of people probably wouldn't know any better anyway.