Best Pistons
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11,287 Posts
I don't think it's the "Best" piston that is needed, but rather the best piston for the application. If you are building a blown, turbo charged, Nitrous injected, nitro methane burning funny bike for drag racing, the piston you are looking for are completely different than the ones you want to use for your NA street bike that isn't going to exceed 6200 RPM's.
Here are a couple threads that I think would be worth a look. They clearly define my thoughts on your question.
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57196
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58559
But to make a long story short, I like the SE cast pistons on a street build as described in the threads mentioned.
Here are a couple threads that I think would be worth a look. They clearly define my thoughts on your question.
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57196
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58559
But to make a long story short, I like the SE cast pistons on a street build as described in the threads mentioned.
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1,460 Posts
I've had excellent results with SE pistons, both the cast and Forged (ARIAS) and Weisco. The latest Weisco are very up to date. JEs seem to be dated or low tech. KBs are junk, very brittle, I wouldn't even put them in a mild build, they don't seem to handle detonation or pinging at all.
Well, you can tell HD Tech is a MMI grad, brand new at that. If anyone 'cracks' a piston, hyper or not, they AIN'T a wrench! If hypers were so hard to use with pinging and deto, why does EVERY OEM in the world, harley included, use them with their leaned out, EPA tunes?? They say ignorance is bliss, I wonder if this is why Dealers are only allowed to hire from MMI?? :blink:
Panman
Panman
Panman --
You are a BEAST!!!
I was thinking you'd drop by. Since your posts a while back about the different alloys, I've had the opportunity to ask more knowledgeable questions in a few related conversations I've had. Your good info came in handy. I thanked you then and I'll do so again. Have a good Christmas.
GC
You are a BEAST!!!
I was thinking you'd drop by. Since your posts a while back about the different alloys, I've had the opportunity to ask more knowledgeable questions in a few related conversations I've had. Your good info came in handy. I thanked you then and I'll do so again. Have a good Christmas.GC
You couldn't be more incorrect. But I don't really care if you want to wallow in your ignorance, if you want to use KB that's up to you. I am sharing my experience freely with someone who asked for help. I've seen these failures my self, no pan era 'wrench' is going to convince me I was imagining things.Dron54 said:
Dron54 - I respect the opinion you offered with regards to the question ask and I am sure you have a lot of experience that would be very helpful on this forum. I also respect the opinion that HD Tech offered based on his experience. What I don’t respect is how you attacked HD Tech’s qualifications and experience. One of the rules of this site is, you can differ with others opinions but you don’t attack the individual or their qualifications. I don’t feel the comments about HD Tech being a new MMI graduate were necessary. Just my opinion.Dron54 said:
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4,836 Posts
OK, once again. This part of the VTF is for the exchange of rational and respectful opinions and knowledge about the V Twin motor.
The normal rule is that if a man says such and such a motor or component does such and such a thing, then he is assumed to be telling the truth, based on his own experience.
It is perfectly OK to ask for the evidence to back up the assertion, but it is not OK to simply say someone is wrong without first giving them the opportunity to back up what they say.
It is certainly not OK to suggest that just because a man has been working on these motors for twice as long as you have, he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Of course a degree of friendly badinage is fun and perfectly all right, but we have had quite enough problems in the past by allowing things to get even slightly out of hand.
For the benefit of everyone, you guys stick to exchanging knowledge in a rational and respectful manner, and I'll stick to booting out the people who don't.
Anyone who does not feel offended by this, please let me know, and I will try harder
The normal rule is that if a man says such and such a motor or component does such and such a thing, then he is assumed to be telling the truth, based on his own experience.
It is perfectly OK to ask for the evidence to back up the assertion, but it is not OK to simply say someone is wrong without first giving them the opportunity to back up what they say.
It is certainly not OK to suggest that just because a man has been working on these motors for twice as long as you have, he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Of course a degree of friendly badinage is fun and perfectly all right, but we have had quite enough problems in the past by allowing things to get even slightly out of hand.
For the benefit of everyone, you guys stick to exchanging knowledge in a rational and respectful manner, and I'll stick to booting out the people who don't.
Anyone who does not feel offended by this, please let me know, and I will try harder
Pistons
I m only a hobbyist, but heres my opinion....For a flat top, KBs are the way to go. You can run them at .0015" piston/cylinder clearance, for good seal, quiet operation. Wiseco forged need something like .0025", and also because thermal growth, etc., will definitely make "slap" noise (pistons slap)when cold.
I know this about SE flat tops - Valve reliefs often need to be modified for higher TDC lift builds. As a forum surfer, I read about people having to modify valve relief location, etc. on these all the time. Also, .020" deck height not ideal.
My 2 cents.
I m only a hobbyist, but heres my opinion....For a flat top, KBs are the way to go. You can run them at .0015" piston/cylinder clearance, for good seal, quiet operation. Wiseco forged need something like .0025", and also because thermal growth, etc., will definitely make "slap" noise (pistons slap)when cold.
I know this about SE flat tops - Valve reliefs often need to be modified for higher TDC lift builds. As a forum surfer, I read about people having to modify valve relief location, etc. on these all the time. Also, .020" deck height not ideal.
My 2 cents.
A totally false statement was made and I pointed it out, sue me. The analysis about qualifications was derived from that same rediculous statement, take my first born. Reading the threads Springer posted would explain all of this and we would'nt be bickering, steal my truck. Now that I'm worth nothing, bye.:bannedmf:
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6,364 Posts
YEA well I like to use 5 lb coffee cans ,:duh?: you can use the lid to up compression. Just trying to lighten it up a bit guys. Really this has been beat to death. I would say it would be hard to get a piston that would not meet your needs for a street engine. Well maybe my coffee can might not work the best but you get the point. Have a great day.
"Best" is a relative term. Like Springer said... it depends on your application.HD Tech said:
Last I checked, JE made the SE pistons. That may have changed, though. I like the stock pistons for anything up to 10:1 CR in a non-blown or turbo'd engine. Forged pistons aren't necessary unless you have a very Hi-Perf engine. Most street bikes will do well with cast pistons. And, if you build it right, you won't have to worry about detonation, so that shouldn't be a factor. Weisco's are very good, too. I used them in my old XLCH rocket.
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13 Posts
I've seen alot of these "which is best" piston threads. You got your Cast camp and your forged camp.atengnr said:
One thing the cast camp seem to always overlook is the type of cylinder being run. If your running a traditional 2 piece cylinder with an iron sleeve, then the cast piston is a better choice if skirt tolerances is your primary concern, since cast expand less. And I think its universal that typical cast piston tolerances are around .001", typical forged offerings again will need about double the clearance for a proper fit, typically around .002".
For iron sleeved cylinders, a cast piston is probably a smart choice. I would go with a SE piston or something similiar. Don't know about KB, I know they have alot of marketing hyping the piston, but I dont think they are any better than a tranditional cast piston. In fact if anything I think a traditional cast piston is a better choice and more durable, at a much better price too.
One thing thats never mentioned though is that forged pistons can run tighter skirt tolerance with a newer style one piece aluminum cylinder thats now offered by a number of companies. If your running an all aluminum cylinder, you can run a forged piston with tolerances at .001" and slightly tighter like a cast/KB piston since the expansion rates are going to more uniform between the cylinder and piston. I know there are alot of "forged haters" from the cast camp, but there are alot of high quality forged pistons on the market, and their full potential can be realized in this application. If your running one piece aluminum cylinders, you can have the best of both worlds by running a stronger forged piston with traditional cast piston skirt tolerances which will result in good long term durability for street use.
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