Axtell 107 vs. Revolution 107
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Kinda apples and oranges wrt characteristics and depends on what you want. The Axtell kit is over square, while the Millenium uses the 103 stroker crank and their 98" cylinders.01fxstb said:
An oversquare motor is typically going to be smoother and can be built to deliver torque or higher-rev power. A stroker will shake a bit more and is typically a low-mid torker. Either is a strong step up from a 95 in terms of performance and both are more expensive, with the stroker obviously being more so than the 107.
GRock has built a number of 107s and probably strokers too -- and a lot of members here have both. You'll be getting first-hand input soon! Either way ya go, you'll be grinning.
Current build as per signature. Didn't like the high piston speed of a stroker. Cost wise it's almost the same. Boring stock jugs + stroker piston/crank is about the same as the 107 cylinder kit + boring the cases. Never had an oversquare build before but if I can get 100tq starting at 2000 rpm and it keeps pulling until 5500 rpm, that's all I want. I am shooting only for 115/115 which is significantly lower compared to the pros fine tuned engines as per Dewey's website (www.deweyspegs.com)01fxstb said:
Have fun
Was looking for exactly that kit several weeks ago, couldn't find it on the website. I not good at finding stuff (wife's opinion):yes:revperf said:I don't really want to get into the fray being that I am somewhat biased but we do offer a 4.125" cylinder and piston kit that denotes a 107" with bore only with three different piston combos. All the the Revperf cylinders also carry a lifetime warranty.
There are differences between the two of course. First, I run Millennium so that is where I come from. And, I am an enthusiast and not an expert or a wrench. I did build my engine top to bottom with machine work done by KT Cycles since I could not do that work. So asking me a lot of questions is probably useless since I have probably written below everything I know.
I have not seen any heads up comparisions in terms of power and in terms of longevity. I think the differences are insignificant. Nevertheless, those insignificant differences led me to choose millennium because (right or wrong):
1. I thought aluminium cylinders as opposed to liners would disperse heat quicker and better. I live in Texas and it gets hot. I have a big Millennium build and it gets hot quickly, nearly as soon as I start the engine.
2. Nikasil is good enough for Continental air cooled aircraft engines, Ferrari, BMW, Jaguar etc. so it is good enough for me.
3. Piston selection is a bit different between the two: soft forgings v. silicon forgings in the Axtel system (I seem to recollect). Not too sure that Axtel doesn't have an edge on that one, but unsure. I know I would not use KB's hypers since they are too hard IMO. But then again the hypers may work with Nikasil better than they do with sleeved cylinders. But the hypers are RPM limited more so than forgings which might be a factor for "A" motors.
4. Balance factor: all the way up to and including the 114 Millenium you can install that kit and substitute tool steel wrist pins for the kit supplied wrist pins (which are lighter, the tool steel ones) and be within acceptable balance tolerances (under 7 grams per piston over stock weight). I do not know if that is true with the Axtel kit. Maybe someone will chime in. If it is not true with the Axtel then that should be a very significant factor to me. Of course, you could spring for the SnS engine which supposedly comes balanced, rotating and reciprocating parts. But, I wanted to build mine and not put in a crate engine.
5. I thought the Nikasil cylinders were trick. That may sound funny, but it was a factor for me and is better than buying a piece of chrome because it looks good, IMO.
6. Warranty was a factor. FWIW, I bought the kit from SBC and then traded that 98 kit (unused and still original boxing) to Brian Nallin for a little bit larger kit. ;-)
Finally, a friend around the corner built the 107 axtell with the BCG dual FI system and runs Wood cams. I built a larger engine and run the Kuryakyn TB with Red Shift cams. Both bikes run as expected. Both are still running well. And the only differences have been I had significant tuning issues with my DTT WEGO II and he did not with his DTT WEGO II because he used the BCG dual FI TB.
Oh, BTW, neither engine is stroked all the way up to 114 ci and you will use the stock 88 crank and not the 103 crank since you get the cubes with bore, 4.25", and not the stroke which is 4" on the 88.
Hope this makes sense.
Seabrook Trick Bagger
I have not seen any heads up comparisions in terms of power and in terms of longevity. I think the differences are insignificant. Nevertheless, those insignificant differences led me to choose millennium because (right or wrong):
1. I thought aluminium cylinders as opposed to liners would disperse heat quicker and better. I live in Texas and it gets hot. I have a big Millennium build and it gets hot quickly, nearly as soon as I start the engine.
2. Nikasil is good enough for Continental air cooled aircraft engines, Ferrari, BMW, Jaguar etc. so it is good enough for me.
3. Piston selection is a bit different between the two: soft forgings v. silicon forgings in the Axtel system (I seem to recollect). Not too sure that Axtel doesn't have an edge on that one, but unsure. I know I would not use KB's hypers since they are too hard IMO. But then again the hypers may work with Nikasil better than they do with sleeved cylinders. But the hypers are RPM limited more so than forgings which might be a factor for "A" motors.
4. Balance factor: all the way up to and including the 114 Millenium you can install that kit and substitute tool steel wrist pins for the kit supplied wrist pins (which are lighter, the tool steel ones) and be within acceptable balance tolerances (under 7 grams per piston over stock weight). I do not know if that is true with the Axtel kit. Maybe someone will chime in. If it is not true with the Axtel then that should be a very significant factor to me. Of course, you could spring for the SnS engine which supposedly comes balanced, rotating and reciprocating parts. But, I wanted to build mine and not put in a crate engine.
5. I thought the Nikasil cylinders were trick. That may sound funny, but it was a factor for me and is better than buying a piece of chrome because it looks good, IMO.
6. Warranty was a factor. FWIW, I bought the kit from SBC and then traded that 98 kit (unused and still original boxing) to Brian Nallin for a little bit larger kit. ;-)
Finally, a friend around the corner built the 107 axtell with the BCG dual FI system and runs Wood cams. I built a larger engine and run the Kuryakyn TB with Red Shift cams. Both bikes run as expected. Both are still running well. And the only differences have been I had significant tuning issues with my DTT WEGO II and he did not with his DTT WEGO II because he used the BCG dual FI TB.
Oh, BTW, neither engine is stroked all the way up to 114 ci and you will use the stock 88 crank and not the 103 crank since you get the cubes with bore, 4.25", and not the stroke which is 4" on the 88.
Hope this makes sense.
Seabrook Trick Bagger
I have a customer interested in a big bore or stroke. I talked to axtell and they only use 2618 pistons. My guy is now leaning towards a se 103 build with the stock cast pistons. He is a tourer and only wants long lived torque. He is scared of the 2618 pistons.. steve
Rev Performance vs Axtell
I have had both (4-1/8 bore cylinders from Millinium and Axtell) and had no problems with either one. My first build was a 107 fron Nallin Performance when Brian was still there. I decided to step up to a 117 and went to T-Man Performance for my current build. TR did not want to use the Millinium cylinders for the HP levels we were shooting at because he had no experience with the Millinium product at that time so he used a Axtell 4-1/8 aluminum cylinder (not the nikasil type) and custom angletop pistons from MTC. Since my build was done TR has used the millenium cylinders and has had no problems as far as I know. I have had zero problems with either setup.
I have had both (4-1/8 bore cylinders from Millinium and Axtell) and had no problems with either one. My first build was a 107 fron Nallin Performance when Brian was still there. I decided to step up to a 117 and went to T-Man Performance for my current build. TR did not want to use the Millinium cylinders for the HP levels we were shooting at because he had no experience with the Millinium product at that time so he used a Axtell 4-1/8 aluminum cylinder (not the nikasil type) and custom angletop pistons from MTC. Since my build was done TR has used the millenium cylinders and has had no problems as far as I know. I have had zero problems with either setup.
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