Another Dealer giving wrong information

2213 Views 15 Replies 12 Participants Last post by TomB, Jan 17, 2006

wehohl

Discussion Starter · Jan 14, 2006

The following response was given to a person wanting to do their own maintenance and voiding the warranty.

"Yes, you can do your own service. I used to do them on my own bikes. You will need to keep (and possibly produce, if asked) reciepts showing that genuine H-D oil, filter and parts were used for that service.
There are some hazards, however. Since we (and therefore H-D) cannot confirm that all maintanence procedure requirements are satisfied, any possible warranty claims that are a function of that maintanence may be impacted. An example would be a handling problem that is found to be improperly adjusted steering head bearings. You would be required to pay for the I&R and repair (adjustment). If an H-D dealership had done the service, you would be fully covered.
Mike"

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petrock

· #2 · Jan 14, 2006

Wow, thats bull... By law, if a specific brand is required to be used to keep a warranty valid, then that company MUST provide it for free... Also the use of aftermarket parts (including oils) can't void your warranty unless they are the cause of the problem (i.e. using the wrong weight oil).

Legally, a vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle due to an aftermarket part unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to the failure in the vehicle (per the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).

So if you install pipes and the transmission blows, your still covered under warrenty because the pipes have little to no effect on your transmission. But if those pipes cause so much back presure that the heads blow off, then the repair will not be covered under warrenty... Make sense?

Its all covered under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Read more on it here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm
http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=116&did=748

Enjoy...

71baldboy

· #3 · Jan 14, 2006

Playing the "devils advocate" I'd guess at $60 aus/hr they wanna do all the services they can.
Now on the other hand i'd tell that dealer to stick it up his @ss.

utrvp

· #4 · Jan 15, 2006

wehohl said:
The following response was given to a person wanting to do their own maintenance and voiding the warranty.

"Yes, you can do your own service. I used to do them on my own bikes. You will need to keep (and possibly produce, if asked) reciepts showing that genuine H-D oil, filter and parts were used for that service.
There are some hazards, however. Since we (and therefore H-D) cannot confirm that all maintanence procedure requirements are satisfied, any possible warranty claims that are a function of that maintanence may be impacted. An example would be a handling problem that is found to be improperly adjusted steering head bearings. You would be required to pay for the I&R and repair (adjustment). If an H-D dealership had done the service, you would be fully covered.
Mike"

While the first line about using only Genuine Harley oil is false the rest of what he said makes sense. If you botch a maintanence item you can't expect the dealer to cover it under warranty.

Sarge12R

· #5 · Jan 15, 2006

Great points. Any maintenance that you do yourself just saves you money in the future, for more Harley stuff!:brows:

adlerx

· #6 · Jan 15, 2006

When I had warranty work done, no one ever asked for my maintnence records and I never had any maintnence done at a HD dealer so it wasn't in their system....

wyodude

· #7 · Jan 15, 2006

71baldboy said:
Playing the "devils advocate" I'd guess at $60 aus/hr they wanna do all the services they can.
Now on the other hand i'd tell that dealer to stick it up his @ss.

Let's see...$60 aus ~ $44 us, that's a bargain.

The dealerships around here charge $70 us ($96 aus) per hour.

They do the same lousy job though

petrock

· #8 · Jan 15, 2006 (Edited)

utrvp said:
While the first line about using only Genuine Harley oil is false the rest of what he said makes sense. If you botch a maintanence item you can't expect the dealer to cover it under warranty.

Sorry to say it, but your a stealers wet dream. Yes the statement makes sense, that is what the stealers bank on. But that still doesn't make it true.

Here's an example of the hypocrisy in the dealers statement: You get all your maintenance done at one HD shop. You then have a problem and bring it to another shop. You still had all your maintenance done by an HD shop, but it wasn't the one you brought the bike to for the repair. The second shop would have no way of knowing if the maintenance was done properly etc. Should the warranty still be honored? Hell yes...

It is VERY hard to prove that maintenance was done properly, unless its extremely obvious (like your oil looks like tar). All they need to know is that the maintenance was done at the proper intervals etc which can be proved with receipts from the shop you had the work done, or from a maintenance log book when you do it yourself. Receipts for oil purchases etc doesn't hurt either.

According to the law, no matter who did the maintenance and no matter if the parts are OEM or after-market, the warranty must still be honored. What matters is that the maintenance is done at the proper intervals etc. The dealer is correct in that if there is a question as to if the maintenance was done they will ask for records/log books/reciepts. But thats it. Those kind of requests are very rare.

Doesn't matter if you did it, or an indie shop, or some other HD Dealer. If the job is botched, its botched... Just make sure you know what your doing before doing it yourself, or take it to someone who knows how.

I have always done my own work on my vehicles and have never had a problem getting warranty service done (even on my highly modified '03 Dodge Durango).

One other note, the dealer does not cover the cost of the warranty repair. They charge whomever issued the warranty (be it Harley or some other company). No money is lost by the dealer, only gained. Its like health insurance, the doctor charges your insurance company.

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utrvp

· #9 · Jan 16, 2006

petrock said:
Sorry to say it, but your a stealers wet dream. Yes the statement makes sense, that is what the stealers bank on. But that still doesn't make it true.

Here's an example of the hypocrisy in the dealers statement: You get all your maintenance done at one HD shop. You then have a problem and bring it to another shop. You still had all your maintenance done by an HD shop, but it wasn't the one you brought the bike to for the repair. The second shop would have no way of knowing if the maintenance was done properly etc. Should the warranty still be honored? Hell yes...

It is VERY hard to prove that maintenance was done properly, unless its extremely obvious (like your oil looks like tar). All they need to know is that the maintenance was done at the proper intervals etc which can be proved with receipts from the shop you had the work done, or from a maintenance log book when you do it yourself. Receipts for oil purchases etc doesn't hurt either.

According to the law, no matter who did the maintenance and no matter if the parts are OEM or after-market, the warranty must still be honored. What matters is that the maintenance is done at the proper intervals etc. The dealer is correct in that if there is a question as to if the maintenance was done they will ask for records/log books/reciepts. But thats it. Those kind of requests are very rare.

Doesn't matter if you did it, or an indie shop, or some other HD Dealer. If the job is botched, its botched... Just make sure you know what your doing before doing it yourself, or take it to someone who knows how.

I have always done my own work on my vehicles and have never had a problem getting warranty service done (even on my highly modified '03 Dodge Durango).

One other note, the dealer does not cover the cost of the warranty repair. They charge whomever issued the warranty (be it Harley or some other company). No money is lost by the dealer, only gained. Its like health insurance, the doctor charges your insurance company.

I think maybe you better re-read both the original post and my reply. In the original post the dealer told him if another H-D Dealer did the job he was covered. My post only said that if, using the example the dealer gave, you adjusted the steering bearing yourself and screwed it up not to expect the dealer to fix it for you under warranty. I would like to see this law you refer to that says it dosen't matter who screwed it up the dealer has to make it right.

marthared

· #10 · Jan 16, 2006

adlerx said:
When I had warranty work done, no one ever asked for my maintnence records and I never had any maintnence done at a HD dealer so it wasn't in their system....

Same with me... I had a fuel line leak inside the tank... Took the bike in, under warranty, and no one ever asked my for any maintenence records (and I had almost 30,000 miles on it).

petrock

· #11 · Jan 16, 2006

utrvp said:
I think maybe you better re-read both the original post and my reply. In the original post the dealer told him if another H-D Dealer did the job he was covered. My post only said that if, using the example the dealer gave, you adjusted the steering bearing yourself and screwed it up not to expect the dealer to fix it for you under warranty. I would like to see this law you refer to that says it dosen't matter who screwed it up the dealer has to make it right.

I never said if you botched the job it was covered... Note that its a seperate paragraph...

The law I was refuring to was Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. In it, it states, that a warrantier (in this case HD) cannot require service be performed by a specific repair shop (unless explicitly stated in the contract, which it is not in HD's). So you can do the service yourself, or bring it to an indie shop or to a dealer. It will not void your warranty. That Act also states that a warrantier cannnot require that specific/OEM parts be used during service (unless explicitly stated in the contract, which it is not in HD's). If it does, it has to provide those parts/service for free.

The general rule of thumb (for cars, trucks, bikes or any vehicle) is if you do the work yourself, keep an accurate maintenance/repair log stating at what milage you do what service etc. Being as specific as possible (including type of oil, and weight etc). To be extra cautious, keep all your reciepts from whatever auto parts store you buy your stuff from. Owning the service manual (official/OEM version, not some crappy Chilton/eBay special) is also good proof. Doing all that will cover your butt pretty well if you ever have a warranty issue.

So if you do all your own maintenance and fallow all the instructions for maintaining your vehicle (i.e. doing specific services at specific milages etc), you should have little to no problems with your warranty.

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utrvp

· #12 · Jan 16, 2006 (Edited)

petrock said:
I never said if you botched the job it was covered... Note that its a seperate paragraph...

Again....re-read my original post. That is all I said.

"While the first line about using only Genuine Harley oil is false the rest of what he said makes sense. If you botch a maintanence item you can't expect the dealer to cover it under warranty."

That is 100% of what I said. I never said you couldn't get an independent mechanic to do the work but regardless of who does it, (I'm refering to non HD mechanics & do it yourselfers only) if they screw it up then the warrany is not going to cover it. Obviously if a HD mechanic screws it up then either the dealer who's mechanic messed up or perhaps another dealer with more competent mechanics will have to fix it under warranty.

bay13

· #13 · Jan 16, 2006

Another dealer giving wrong information

One person at the dealer said that so the entire dealer gets credit? All dealers have people that know whats going on, the good dealers have more than the ones that are not so good, problem sometimes is finding the ones that really know whats going on. You might have to go back in the shop area, if your lucky there are some up front at the service desk. It helps if you don't act like you know more than they do. (even if you really do)

rkt88403

· #14 · Jan 17, 2006

marthared said:
Same with me... I had a fuel line leak inside the tank... Took the bike in, under warranty, and no one ever asked my for any maintenence records (and I had almost 30,000 miles on it).

I took my bike in for the same thing plus the stuck fuel gauge last week. No records. No problem.

roadkingmr

· #15 · Jan 17, 2006

I totally agree, I have in the past and will do my own maintenance on my new bike.

Do you’ all use amsoil products for all drive train and engine components.

I assume its still worth keeping the extended warrantee.

Mike

TomB

· #16 · Jan 17, 2006

Long story, maybe it means something, maybe it don't.

When I bought my Dyna in 2002, H-D had a deal going on where, if you bought their extended warranty and didn't use it, they would refund the cost of the warranty after it ran out. Part of the deal was that you had to provide proof of proper maintenance at the end of teh warranty period in order to get the refund. I did most of my own service.

My extended warranty ran out in November. I copied all the Walmart receipts for Mobil 15w50 auto oil, indy shop receipts for oil filters, tires and Red Line products, and the dealer receipts for o-rings and mailed them in. H-D looked over the receipts and cut me a check ...

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