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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys...

I'm an Amsoil guy & getting ready to do an oil change. Amsoil has a product i've never seen before, Amsoil 20/50 Oil, Primary & Tranny Fluid. Has anybody used this in there primary & tranny. Please let me know, as i'm a little skeptical, but, Amsoil has never done me wrong. It's a little price ( $8.80/quart ) but if it covers all three areas, it will save me in the long run.

Thanx guys...
Chap
 

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Chap,
I am about to change to the Amsoil products myself. My research has convince me to proceed with the MCV 20W50 for the crankcase and primary and use the Amsoil Heavy Duty 75W90 Tranny fluid in the transmission.

However, I think even if you use Amsoil's 20W50 in all three holes you will be better off than using the SYN3 product. Again, this is the conclusion I came to after a fairly significant internet search.

You might want to ask this same question in the "Engine Oils and Lubrication Forum" above!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanx Mark. I contacted an Amsoil rep & he broke it down for me. Odds have it, I will use Amsoil in all three. Thanx for getting back. I've used Amsoil for years & there product is second to none, I was just confused about using it in everything. Never done that before.

Thanx
Chap
 

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Sheriff said:
Chap,
I am about to change to the Amsoil products myself. My research has convince me to proceed with the MCV 20W50 for the crankcase and primary and use the Amsoil Heavy Duty 75W90 Tranny fluid in the transmission.

However, I think even if you use Amsoil's 20W50 in all three holes you will be better off than using the SYN3 product. Again, this is the conclusion I came to after a fairly significant internet search.

You might want to ask this same question in the "Engine Oils and Lubrication Forum" above!
I sell Amsoil and this is what I have been using in my bike.
Summer months
MCV 20W-50 (engine and primary)
SVG 75W-90 (transmission) Might go to 75W-140 this summer

Winter
AME 15W-40 (engine)
MCV 20W-50 (primary)
SVG 75W-90 (transmission)

Mobil 1 works better that the other stuff at the stealer. I case you are low and need to add while out of town.
 

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I'm running it in all three holes and have for about 20K. I'm very happy with this arrangement so far.
 

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wkohn said:
I sell Amsoil and this is what I have been using in my bike.
Summer months
MCV 20W-50 (engine and primary)
SVG 75W-90 (transmission) Might go to 75W-140 this summer

Winter
AME 15W-40 (engine)
MCV 20W-50 (primary)
SVG 75W-90 (transmission)

Mobil 1 works better that the other stuff at the stealer. I case you are low and need to add while out of town.

I used the new 20W50 Amsoil formula in my engine last season with Redline in the Trans. This season I'm going to try all Redline (20W50, MTL & Shockproof Heavy) because I think Redline makes a fantastic product. Prior to making this decision, I was also curious about using either Mobil or Amsoil's SVG 75W140 in my trans.

The following is the response I got back from Mobile regarding the use of their 75W140 gear oil in the Harley transmission: "The Mobil1 75W140 should not be used as this is too viscous of a fluid and will not allow proper protection, performance and shifting chracteristics."
 

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SFTL-1 said:
I used the new 20W50 Amsoil formula in my engine last season with Redline in the Trans. This season I'm going to try all Redline (20W50, MTL & Shockproof Heavy) because I think Redline makes a fantastic product. Prior to making this decision, I was also curious about using either Mobil or Amsoil's SVG 75W140 in my trans.

The following is the response I got back from Mobile regarding the use of their 75W140 gear oil in the Harley transmission: "The Mobil1 75W140 should not be used as this is too viscous of a fluid and will not allow proper protection, performance and shifting chracteristics."
Ask Mobil if they put a tackifier in there gear oils. If they do that could be why they do not recommend it. Amsoil does not use a tackifier.

Baker Transmissions recommends a 75W-140 to be used in their DD6.

With Redline before using them ask them to supply the following;
Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172 @ 40 kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hour), Scar in mm (.40 or smaller would be good)
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) (3.89 or smaller would be good)
Total Base Number (11 or higher would be good)

When you get the info post it cause I would be very interested.
 

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SFTL-1 said:
I used the new 20W50 Amsoil formula in my engine last season with Redline in the Trans. This season I'm going to try all Redline (20W50, MTL & Shockproof Heavy) because I think Redline makes a fantastic product. Prior to making this decision, I was also curious about using either Mobil or Amsoil's SVG 75W140 in my trans.

The following is the response I got back from Mobile regarding the use of their 75W140 gear oil in the Harley transmission: "The Mobil1 75W140 should not be used as this is too viscous of a fluid and will not allow proper protection, performance and shifting chracteristics."
By the way. Redline says that the Shockproof Heavy can be rated as a 75W-250. Now if Mobil says not to use a 75W-140 and Redline says you can use their Shockproof Heavy. Who do you believe and why?
 

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wkohn said:
Ask Mobil if they put a tackifier in there gear oils. If they do that could be why they do not recommend it. Amsoil does not use a tackifier.

Baker Transmissions recommends a 75W-140 to be used in their DD6.

With Redline before using them ask them to supply the following;
Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172 @ 40 kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hour), Scar in mm (.40 or smaller would be good)
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) (3.89 or smaller would be good)
Total Base Number (11 or higher would be good)

When you get the info post it cause I would be very interested.

Last time I looked at Baker Drivetrain's web site they were recommending Shockproof Heavy for their transmissions, not sure about specific recommendation for their DD6 trans, nor do I care, I have a 5 speed.

Mobil1 could be using modified pancake syrup in the 75W140 gear oil for all I know, it doesn't effect me, I use Redline - just wanted to post their response as an FYI.

As far as as comparing the stats for Amsoil vs Redline, this is not my field or my concern even though I was a Petroleum Transfer Engineer at my first job I ever had. However, I would also like to see some real apples-to-apples comparison's of Amsoil vs. Redline. Frankly I'm surprised Amsoil has not yet provided this information seeing as though they compare their oil's to just about everyone else in the market. If you know any of the "powers-to-be" at Amsoil, maybe you could be influential in having them provide myself and the rest of the world with these analysis.
 

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SFTL-1 said:
Last time I looked at Baker Drivetrain's web site they were recommending Shockproof Heavy for their transmissions, not sure about specific recommendation for their DD6 trans, nor do I care, I have a 5 speed.

Mobil1 could be using modified pancake syrup in the 75W140 gear oil for all I know, it doesn't effect me, I use Redline - just wanted to post their response as an FYI.

As far as as comparing the stats for Amsoil vs Redline, this is not my field or my concern even though I was a Petroleum Transfer Engineer at my first job I ever had. However, I would also like to see some real apples-to-apples comparison's of Amsoil vs. Redline. Frankly I'm surprised Amsoil has not yet provided this information seeing as though they compare their oil's to just about everyone else in the market. If you know any of the "powers-to-be" at Amsoil, maybe you could be influential in having them provide myself and the rest of the world with these analysis.
Have you noticed that Redline hasn't compared theirs to Amsoil? Another question I have for Redline is why are they so vague in their test results on their web site? Why not list the test results like Amsoil does so it is easier to compare for those that are not a Tribologist?
 

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wkohn said:
Have you noticed that Redline hasn't compared theirs to Amsoil? Another question I have for Redline is why are they so vague in their test results on their web site? Why not list the test results like Amsoil does so it is easier to compare for those that are not a Tribologist?
Not trying to get in a pissing match, especially since I'm just an end user, not distributor or mfg. Let me also go on the record to say I think Amsoil is a high quality product, but I also think Redline is of equal or in some cases greater quality.

In response to your statement I see that Redline compares their lubes with generic dino oil and a couple synthetics labeled as M & C. Amsoil compares their SAE 50 group oil to 14 specific manufacturers on their "White Paper". Based on a non scientific oil poll done in this Forum, Redline is one of the more popular oils being used, just under Amsoil, Mobil1 & SE Syn3 if I'm not mistaken, so why then would Amsoil not include Redline in the mix?

I'm in sales and have been for 20+ years. I believe in the expression "The Devil is in the Details" and that important details are in what is not being said more so than what is being said. If Amsoil went to the effort of examining 14 other competing motorcycle oils and left out Redline, I can only assume there was a reason and that it was not just an oversight.

Either way, I think trying to figure which oil is best between Amsoil vs. Redline is like comparing BMW vs. Mercedes or Ford vs. Chevy, you get the idea.
 

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SFTL-1 said:
Not trying to get in a pissing match, especially since I'm just an end user, not distributor or mfg. Let me also go on the record to say I think Amsoil is a high quality product, but I also think Redline is of equal or in some cases greater quality.

In response to your statement I see that Redline compares their lubes with generic dino oil and a couple synthetics labeled as M & C. Amsoil compares their SAE 50 group oil to 14 specific manufacturers on their "White Paper". Based on a non scientific oil poll done in this Forum, Redline is one of the more popular oils being used, just under Amsoil, Mobil1 & SE Syn3 if I'm not mistaken, so why then would Amsoil not include Redline in the mix?

I'm in sales and have been for 20+ years. I believe in the expression "The Devil is in the Details" and that important details are in what is not being said more so than what is being said. If Amsoil went to the effort of examining 14 other competing motorcycle oils and left out Redline, I can only assume there was a reason and that it was not just an oversight.

Either way, I think trying to figure which oil is best between Amsoil vs. Redline is like comparing BMW vs. Mercedes or Ford vs. Chevy, you get the idea.
I'm not in a pissing match. I just really want to know.

Maybe the reason why Redline was not in the test was because of the companies that Amsoil did compare against were the top 14 companies that were going after the motorcycle oil market. Redlines major push is in Drag Racing and not the motorcycle aftermarket. Hence they were not on the radar screen. But Redline compares to a dino and M & C oils. Why didn't they compare to Amsoil? What is Redline hiding from?

Just because Redline is popular on this forum doesn't mean it is the best. 95" bore kits are popular as power options but a comparably set up 98" kit will out perform the 95". True Dual exhaust are popular but they cause you to lose power compared to the stock exhaust.

I have been in Sales since 1981 and it is true "The Devil is in the Details". That is the one thing missing from Redlines web page. Details.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I live in Socal guys, where it's year round riding & temp for riding pretty much never ever drops below 50. Dont know if that makes a difference in what I use, as I see some like the Severe Gear Oil & some run the 20/50 in all 3. Let me know, this tranny thing has me baffled.

Thanx
Chap
 

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chapds said:
I live in Socal guys, where it's year round riding & temp for riding pretty much never ever drops below 50. Dont know if that makes a difference in what I use, as I see some like the Severe Gear Oil & some run the 20/50 in all 3. Let me know, this tranny thing has me baffled.

Thanx
Chap
Run the Severe Gear in the Transmission. The 75W-90 should be all you need. If you were running into temps above 90 to 95 degrees all the time then I would look into the 75W-140.
 

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chapds said:
I live in Socal guys, where it's year round riding & temp for riding pretty much never ever drops below 50. Dont know if that makes a difference in what I use, as I see some like the Severe Gear Oil & some run the 20/50 in all 3. Let me know, this tranny thing has me baffled.

Thanx
Chap
Redline Shockproof Heavy for Trans and MTL in the primary. In those temps I would be using Redline 20W60 in the engine. I'm sure I'll be reading a reply post shortly from wkohn still asking me why doesn't Redline compare there oils to Amsoil, but I'm sure you can do the research through this Forum as well as the various online resources and form your own educated conclusion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wkohn...

the summer here gets pretty hot weather wise, easily into the 90's. what do you think...

later,
chap
 

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chapds said:
Wkohn...

the summer here gets pretty hot weather wise, easily into the 90's. what do you think...

later,
chap
Chap,

I myself would be using the 75W-140 if the weather were to be at that for about two months or longer in a row and I was doing a lot of riding. If you are only going to be doing a little bit of riding then stick with the 75W-90. Both should have the same amount of extreme pressure additives just that one has a high viscosity which will stay at a higher level for the duration of the 5,000 miles before you change it again. Another thing with the Severe Gear oils is that they were designed for heavy equipment gear boxes and are designed to go 500,000 miles. So having the oil in our gear boxes for 5,000 miles will show very little decrease in viscosity over the 5,000 miles. There is one trade off with the 75W-140. It could reduce your gas mileage because of an increase in hydrualic drag.

I have a chart someplace here that shows the viscosity differences between engine and gear oils. There is very little difference, if any, in viscosity between a 20W-50 engine oil and a 75W-90 gear oil. I will see if I can find that chart today.

Bill
 

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malcolmUSA said:
I read all the articles I could find on what weight to use and sent an email to Amsoil. They said to use 20-50 MCV in all three.
Amsoil says 20W-50 because Harley says 20W-50. When it comes down to warranty claims and Harley will say they were not using a 20W-50 like we said. Then you have to in court go and educated the court on the actual viscosity differences between the engine and gear oils. Lawyers are at about $250/hour here. Amsoil is trying to make life simple for those that don't know about the differences between the two oils. Basically.
 

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Sheriff said:
Chap,
I am about to change to the Amsoil products myself. My research has convince me to proceed with the MCV 20W50 for the crankcase and primary and use the Amsoil Heavy Duty 75W90 Tranny fluid in the transmission.

However, I think even if you use Amsoil's 20W50 in all three holes you will be better off than using the SYN3 product. Again, this is the conclusion I came to after a fairly significant internet search.

You might want to ask this same question in the "Engine Oils and Lubrication Forum" above!
I work in the automotive industry and one of my clients is a major Harley powertrain component supplier for 20+ years. I called the R&D technical manager and asked him what he would use Amsoil, Mobil1 or Syn3. He said use Syn3 because the Harley development engineers do actual gas fired dyno tests with bike drivelines versus bench test results published by Amsoil. Doesn't mean much to me but he uses Syn3 in his RK
 
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